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Spoilers Marvel's Echo on Disney+

I hope this is just one-off, and they will improve in the future, cause this is just embarrassing to watch. One would expect this quality of combat from Fanmade projects not a $53 Billion net worth company.
OK yes, there were a couple times where you could see they weren't actually hitting each other, but with something this complex, I'm more than willing to forgive a couple little mistakes making it through.
I watched the Assembled episode last night, and I was really impressed with how far they went to accurate both the deaf and Indigenous communities. We've come a long way from how those kinds of groups used to be treated in old shows.
 
You are right, sorry, even fan made short movies are made better this days:
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Not sure what this was but there was little tension.

Certainly not bad, but Echo has a more serious feel.
 
OK yes, there were a couple times where you could see they weren't actually hitting each other, but with something this complex, I'm more than willing to forgive a couple little mistakes making it through.
I watched the Assembled episode last night, and I was really impressed with how far they went to accurate both the deaf and Indigenous communities. We've come a long way from how those kinds of groups used to be treated in old shows.
Looking at you Voyager. ;)
 
Counterpoint, The Marvels was #1 its opening week. I don't know if Echo being #4 is a success or not, just sayin'.
 
Also, in fairness, ranking high in 'minutes viewed' is a lot easier when the whole show drops on one day.

I do think Echo has fairly succesful but ultimately I don't think streaming has any genuinely objective yardstick we can point to to back up the succes or failure of a project.
 
Counterpoint, The Marvels was #1 its opening week. I don't know if Echo being #4 is a success or not, just sayin'.

I'm sure The Marvels was far more expensive, making it much harder to earn enough money to count as a "success." So it's not really a fair comparison.

Also, The Marvels only hit streaming a couple of days ago, so it's too early to see how it will perform there. People with agendas insist on ignoring the fact that the actors' strike prevented advance promotion of The Marvels, hurting its box office performance, and that movie attendance in general is down lately. The movie itself is incredibly fun and delightful, and hopefully it will get the attention it deserves on streaming.
 
I'm sure The Marvels was far more expensive, making it much harder to earn enough money to count as a "success." So it's not really a fair comparison.
That's exactly my point, that being #4 is not enough on its own to consider Echo to be a success or not.
 
That's exactly my point, that being #4 is not enough on its own to consider Echo to be a success or not.

But it sounds like you have it backward. For a lower-budget production, the bar for success is lower, so #4 is more likely to be successful enough, not less likely. Movie budgets these days are so insanely bloated that you have to be super-successful and even a brief stint at #1 isn't enough, but TV budgets allow saner standards where you can be a success as long as you're in the top ten.
 
Also, in fairness, ranking high in 'minutes viewed' is a lot easier when the whole show drops on one day.

I do think Echo has fairly succesful but ultimately I don't think streaming has any genuinely objective yardstick we can point to to back up the succes or failure of a project.

Yeah... i think the only thing we can measure is "hyper-success"....like Stranger Things or Squid Game.... and maybe even "Manifest:

I'm sure The Marvels was far more expensive, making it much harder to earn enough money to count as a "success." So it's not really a fair comparison.

Also, The Marvels only hit streaming a couple of days ago, so it's too early to see how it will perform there. People with agendas insist on ignoring the fact that the actors' strike prevented advance promotion of The Marvels, hurting its box office performance, and that movie attendance in general is down lately. The movie itself is incredibly fun and delightful, and hopefully it will get the attention it deserves on streaming.

Those are definitely strong factors... at least one other one for sure would be the scheduling of it.... premiering the week before Hunger Games (uh, hello...?) and also soon after 5 Nights at Freddy's which was a surprise hit. I wonder if the Marvels would have done better against Aquaman?

Also, I wonder if the Hamas-Israel war might have played a much smaller but significant factor?
 
I think the position is meaningless in a vacuum, The Marvels wasn't considered a success despite being #1 at the box office in its first week. Why would Echo be considered a success at #4? It certainly could be, depending on expectations, but we don't know what those are. Apparently, Echo's $40M price tag was a bargain which would surely help but I don't know what was expected.
 
I think the position is meaningless in a vacuum, The Marvels wasn't considered a success despite being #1 at the box office in its first week. Why would Echo be considered a success at #4? It certainly could be, depending on expectations, but we don't know what those are. Apparently, Echo's $40M price tag was a bargain which would surely help but I don't know what was expected.
Very , very true... and also is this against other Disney + shows, like Percy Jackson?

The thing about ratings... are at least stockholders obligated to get that info? ANd if so, surely that could leak...?
 
I think the position is meaningless in a vacuum, The Marvels wasn't considered a success despite being #1 at the box office in its first week. Why would Echo be considered a success at #4?

I already explained that -- because it's not a vacuum, since we have more information than those two numbers. Statistics are only meaningful when placed in context, and we have that context, the relative budgets of the two productions. Echo cost a seventh as much to make as The Marvels, so it doesn't need to perform as well to be considered a success.


It certainly could be, depending on expectations, but we don't know what those are.

True, but what we do know -- that it cost a seventh as much -- is enough to let us form a reasonable expectation of the odds. Since the bar for success is so much lower, fourth place doesn't sound bad at all, so your skepticism seems excessive.

More importantly, it makes no sense to compare The Marvels's theatrical box office with Echo's performance on streaming, since they aren't competing directly against each other. So the way you've defined the question in the first place is flawed. If you were comparing it to The Marvels's streaming performance, then that could be meaningful, but since it only started streaming two days ago, it's too early to make that comparison.
 
Apparently, Echo's $40M price tag was a bargain which would surely help but I don't know what was expected.

It's done better than *shudder* 'Secret Invasion', which cost five times as much. So from a bottom-line perspective, that has to be good.

I'd hope the days of spending 200m for six episodes are behind them now. I can't imagine 'Daredevil' or 'Wonder Man' are costing them that much, at least.
 
I already explained that -- because it's not a vacuum, since we have more information than those two numbers. Statistics are only meaningful when placed in context, and we have that context, the relative budgets of the two productions. Echo cost a seventh as much to make as The Marvels, so it doesn't need to perform as well to be considered a success.
I'm not comparing the success of the projects to each other. Was The Marvels success determined by being #1 on release? So why is Echo's success determined by being #4? I'm not saying Echo is a success (or not) compared to The Marvels just that the rankings themselves don't necessarily tell us anything.

True, but what we do know -- that it cost a seventh as much -- is enough to let us form a reasonable expectation of the odds. Since the bar for success is so much lower, fourth place doesn't sound bad at all, so your skepticism seems excessive.

Do we even know what "fourth place" means? How can you say it's acceptable or not?
 
I'm not comparing the success of the projects to each other. Was The Marvels success determined by being #1 on release? So why is Echo's success determined by being #4?...
Do we even know what "fourth place" means? How can you say it's acceptable or not?

As I keep trying to explain, I'm speaking probabilistically, not deterministically. Few things in life can be known absolutely, but we can use what we know to estimate odds -- for instance, your weather forecaster can't tell you for certain whether you'll get rained on tomorrow, but they can tell you if the chances of it happening are good or bad. You can't know what poker hand you'll be dealt, but you can know that it's far more likely to be one pair than a royal flush. In this case, given that a $40 million TV series has a much lower bar for success than a $265 million movie, the probability that #4 is good enough is higher.

Although surely the Hollywood Reporter information that Turtletrekker just mentioned gives us more solid information to go on. We now have confirmation that Echo had a strong opening and actually boosted the ratings for related shows. I'd say that settles the question.
 
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