News Benioff and Weiss Leave Star Wars

[Campe]

Way to completely misrepresent and misinterpret that quote in a completely inapplicable context.

Sigh.

Just like Dany, Harvey Dent did become a villain because situations led them to that. While it would have been quite difficult for Danny’s deeds to be covered up, Dent’s were for the good of Gotham. Are they two different scenarios? Yes. But the ultimate truth is the same: they were heroes that were wronged in someway and lashed out.

But hey, this is a Star Wars forum! The GoT finale was five months ago and has been talked about. To. Death. Let it the fuck go!

 

[EnderAKH]

Guys, been through this with him in the GoT thread. You are not going to change his mind. Even though there were a LOT of people (my wife and I included) who knew this was the outcome for Dany seasons in advance, you will never change his mind that we were somehow "objectively wrong" (a term some posters throw around a lot that I do not think they actually understand the meaning of). Let it go, it is not even relevant to the topic at hand.

 

[DigificWriter]

Guys, been through this with him in the GoT thread. You are not going to change his mind. Even though there were a LOT of people (my wife and I included) who knew this was the outcome for Dany seasons in advance, you will never change his mind that we were somehow "objectively wrong" (a term some posters throw around a lot that I do not think they actually understand the meaning of). Let it go, it is not even relevant to the topic at hand.

This isn't my sentiment/viewpoint alone; it's the sentiment and viewpoint of hundreds of thousands of people.

So no matter how much you try to come at me with examples as to how what happened with Dany was somehow foreshadowed, there are hundreds of thousands of people who disagree and weren't shy about letting David and Dan know that, although their protests fell on deaf ears because the recipients ran and hid like cowards instead of acting like men and facing the wrath their decisions had wrought.

Also, this entire topic IS relevant to why it's a good thing that David and Dan are no longer involved with the Star Wars franchise, whether by their own choice or otherwise.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Guys, come on. Let it go.

I'm feeling a SONG COMING ON!!!

 

[Campe]

This isn't my sentiment/viewpoint alone; it's the sentiment and viewpoint of hundreds of thousands of people.

So no matter how much you try to come at me with examples as to how what happened with Dany was somehow foreshadowed, there are hundreds of thousands of people who disagree and weren't shy about letting David and Dan know that, although their protests fell on deaf ears because the recipients ran and hid like cowards instead of acting like men and facing the wrath their decisions had wrought.

Also, this entire topic IS relevant to why it's a good thing that David and Dan are no longer involved with the Star Wars franchise, whether by their own choice or otherwise.

• How I Met Your Mother fans were disappointed when the entire point of the story was to convince Ted's kids that he wanted to ask Robin out after the titular mother passed away! Yet, if you rewatch the series, you see how well it is set up from the pilot episode.
• Lost fans complained that the ending was terrible because they were always in purgatory and there were no answers! Well, if you rewatch the series, while there weren't all the answers, there were some (some were headscratchingly left as a DVD extra), some you actually needed to use your brain to connect the dots and not have them handed to you besides the mysteries were only a backdrop to the story about the characters and that everything actually happened to the characters and only the last season's "sideways flashes" were in purgatory.

The feeling about these finales and GoT may be the belief of many, but perhaps there are other opinions than just those of the angry.

 

[Mudd]

When you have Senators of the United States citing Daenerys Targaryen as a role model for women openly, publicly, and on-the-record just days before it was revealed to the world that the character had been turned into a ravimg mad despot and murderer, things have gone far beyond "its just a TV show".

The fact that some folks are dreadfully concerned when United States Senators talk in passing about a TV show really shows how distorted perspectives have become - there is SO MUCH THAT'S MORE IMPORTANT to worry about regarding what our elected representatives are doing right now.

No, it is not "symptomatic" of anything.

It's just a TV show. Those Senators are just talking about TV shows. I wish to the gods that wasting time praising a fictional character of dubious morality was the worst thing they did in a week.

 

[JD]

If the premise that they were let go back in May is true, it does kinda make sense that it was kept quiet for so long precisely because Iger had literally just announced the date for their movies. Letting that news drop as it happened would not have been a good look for Disney or LF.

It's kinda hard to overstate how funny Disney is about keep up appearances. I mean remember that time they knee-jerk fired James Gunn because of some silly BS, then quietly re-hired him but didn't mention it until *months* after the fact because they don't want to look like they're indecisive and flip-flopping? Different situation but basically the same MO.

It's also probably not a coincidence that Disney and/or LF chose to announce they'd been dropped like right after they stuck their foot in their mouths about the GoT finale. Again: appearances are everything to The Mouse.

Looking back now; the common factor between Trank, Trevorrow, L&M, and now B&W seems to be a question of professional competence more so than backlash over other projects (though that seems to at least be a factor for all but L&M.)
Trank IIRC turned out to be a pain in the arse auteur wannabe, Trevorrow comes off like a hack, as do B&W. L&M seem to be the only ones they had *actual* non-euphemistic "creative differences." Which in my view was still on them not LF. If they had no intention of sticking to the script they were being paid to film, it was incumbent to state as much up-front, not try and do it their own way regardless, forcing things to come to a head mid-shoot.

IGN did a story going over all of the directors who have been fired, and pretty much all of them seem to come down to either them not being able to deliver what Lucasfilm wanted, and/or being difficult to work with.
I've said before, but I still think a lot of this comes down to these guys just not liking how much control Lucasfilm is taking over the movies.
I have to admit, I'm a bit shocked they haven't given Tony Gilroy a movie that is his star to finish after he was able to come in and help fix Rogue One.

When you have Senators of the United States citing Daenerys Targaryen as a role model for women openly, publicly, and on-the-record just days before it was revealed to the world that the character had been turned into a ravimg mad despot and murderer, things have gone far beyond "its just a TV show".

No, it's still just a TV show, it just happens to be one that a lot of people really like. It can be important to people, and influential, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still just a TV show.

This is an objectively wrong statement.

Dany was consistently portrayed as being heroic, and David and Dan repeatedly verbally reinforced her heroism - and cited her actions as heroic - pretty much up until Season 8 when they did a complete 360 degree about-face and devolved her into a raving mad despot and murderer in the course of 2 episodes.

While Dany was heroic for most of the series, I do think you could see a lot of signs that it wouldn't take much for her to turn the way she did in the end. I never watched anything past Season 3 or 4 and I was not surprised that was how things ended with her. Even that early you could see hints that it wouldn't take much for her to just lose it.

The story going around right now is that the GoT guys trilogy would have been an origin story for The Jedi. I hope this is something that they still pursue, because it is a story I would love to see told. I think I'd honestly rather see it as a TV show from Dave Filoni, than a movie from someone new to the franchise. They have done a lot to set up the history of the Jedi in The Clone Wars and Rebels, so I'd love to see Filoni be the one to put all of those bits and pieces together in a multi-season show.

 

[valkyrie013]

If you try to please everyone.. your going to piss off everyone..

Lets take a look at some anime, alot of the time the whole main character set is killed of in the last few episodes, with Maybe 1 surviving to tell the story, usually the lackey.. So just think of Rogue One.. now, People like a series, and don't want it to end or have the ability to make a sequal, but if you kill off everybody.. thats it! Cowboy Bebop.. Spoiler (Its been 20 years.. come on..) Spike dies at the end, and since he's the main character.. no more show! Does it piss of a chunk of fandom.. Yep! See there favorite character killed unceremoniously... major buzz killer....
So, the writer writes a story that he hopes is good, and tells a good story.. its up to the audience if they like it.. now with star wars, with the mouse's fingers in the pie.. want to take it safe, not make waves.. and it is hurting it.. The whole first movie was a hope and a dream, then Empire stood itup on its head.. this series is known for doing the hard thing, but the disney era just wants it safe..

 

[EnderAKH]

This isn't my sentiment/viewpoint alone; it's the sentiment and viewpoint of hundreds of thousands of people.

So no matter how much you try to come at me with examples as to how what happened with Dany was somehow foreshadowed, there are hundreds of thousands of people who disagree and weren't shy about letting David and Dan know that, although their protests fell on deaf ears because the recipients ran and hid like cowards instead of acting like men and facing the wrath their decisions had wrought.

But there are as many who picked up that it WAS coming, WAS foreshadowed, thus cannot be "objectively wrong." That people did not pick up on it does not mean it wasn't there. As far as D&D, they said at a recent panel in Austin they NEVER listened to audience feedback through the entire run of the show. Weiss specifically said he didn't see the value in considering other people's reactions through the series. They were allowed to tell the story they wanted to tell, and feedback was irrelevant to the story they wanted to tell.

As far as the feedback, Damon Lindelof did the same thing when he wrapped The Leftovers. In today's hyper-toxic fandom reactions, it is not unreasonable to want to distance yourself from it (after having spent years immersed in it) before going and seeing what a bunch of trolls on the internet had to say about it. ANY finale of a long running TV show is going to be highly scrutinized and thus divisive, and I don't blame any creator for not wanting to subject themselves to the abuse. They put it out there, told the story they wanted to tell, however fans took it is on them.

 

[Reverend]

I've said before, but I still think a lot of this comes down to these guys just not liking how much control Lucasfilm is taking over the movies.

Pretty much.

I have to admit, I'm a bit shocked they haven't given Tony Gilroy a movie that is his star to finish after he was able to come in and help fix Rogue One.

I think it was less about fixing it and more about helping Edwards finishing it off after they hit a bit of a wall.
That Edwards accepted the help and was still closely involved in promoting the movie is entirely to his and LF's credit. He understood more than most I think that he was playing with someone else's toybox and that brings with it a certain responsibility.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure he's on the slate for directing some of the Cassian & K2 show, so he's still very much working with the company.

While Dany was heroic for most of the series, I do think you could see a lot of signs that it wouldn't take much for her to turn the way she did in the end. I never watched anything past Season 3 or 4 and I was not surprised that was how things ended with her. Even that early you could see hints that it wouldn't take much for her to just lose it.

Having not seen it you really can't get just how badly mishandled it was. You can foreshadow things all like, but it was all telling not showing and it came off as utterly nonsensical...and it wasn't the only thing, but that's getting a little too deep into the weeds for a SW thread. Suffice to say that bad writing was bad and lazy creative direction was lazy.

I think I'd honestly rather see it as a TV show from Dave Filoni, than a movie from someone new to the franchise.

Agreed. I trust Dave a lot more with that kind of deep lore stuff than the likes of B&W.

 

[BK613]

But there are as many who picked up that it WAS coming, WAS foreshadowed, thus cannot be "objectively wrong." That people did not pick up on it does not mean it wasn't there. As far as D&D, they said at a recent panel in Austin they NEVER listened to audience feedback through the entire run of the show. Weiss specifically said he didn't see the value in considering other people's reactions through the series. They were allowed to tell the story they wanted to tell, and feedback was irrelevant to the story they wanted to tell.

As far as the feedback, Damon Lindelof did the same thing when he wrapped The Leftovers. In today's hyper-toxic fandom reactions, it is not unreasonable to want to distance yourself from it (after having spent years immersed in it) before going and seeing what a bunch of trolls on the internet had to say about it. ANY finale of a long running TV show is going to be highly scrutinized and thus divisive, and I don't blame any creator for not wanting to subject themselves to the abuse. They put it out there, told the story they wanted to tell, however fans took it is on them.

I knew it was coming the moment DT answered "injustice with justice." I knew she was going to be as cruel and despotic as the rulers she was replacing at that moment. And the show bore that out.

 

[BillJ]

You don't "change your minds" in the final 6-episode season of a a series, especially when you were told the ending years earlierin broad strokes by the author of the novels you're adapting.

I think this circles back around to fans being unable to handle that they have no say in the process.

 

[JD]

Regardless, I'm pretty sure he's on the slate for directing some of the Cassian & K2 show, so he's still very much working with the company.

I didn't know that, but I am glad to hear it.

Having not seen it you really can't get just how badly mishandled it was. You can foreshadow things all like, but it was all telling not showing and it came off as utterly nonsensical...and it wasn't the only thing, but that's getting a little too deep into the weeds for a SW thread. Suffice to say that bad writing was bad and lazy creative direction was lazy.

OK, if it really was that badly done I can see being upset about it, all I meant was that it didn't seem totally out of character based on what I saw. Obvious something can be completely consistent with the characters past behavior, but still be badly done.

Agreed. I trust Dave a lot more with that kind of deep lore stuff than the likes of B&W.

It's not just trust him with the lore, whenever possible I like to see the person who did the set up also get to do the payoff.

 

[Tuskin38]

Can we stop talking to Digific and get back on topic?

 

[Neroon]

*sigh* if only we still had a thread for that... Unfortunately it had to be closed due to racism.

That'll be enough. The other thread was closed with good reason. Trying to continue the topic in an unrelated thread can earn you a warning and possible suspension, so let it go.

 

[Tuskin38]

I hope this is worthy for a Necro, but they've finally said what their story was about, and why LucasFilm decided not to go with it

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/t...f-weiss-netflix-thrones-interview-1235783117/

Next was their Star Wars movie. Fans were excited by the idea of the Thrones guys bringing their grounded-fantasy dramatics to a galaxy far, far away. Yet the movie was shelved along with Star Wars projects from other top creatives (like Kevin Feige, Patty Jenkins and Damon Lindelof).

“We wanted to do The First Jedi,” Benioff says. “Basically how the Jedi Order came to be, why it came to be, the first lightsaber …”

“And we were annoyed as hell when [Rian Johnson, the duo’s longtime friend and 3BP producer] called his movie The Last Jedi,” Weiss says dryly. “He completely destroyed the obvious title for what we were working on.”

Asked what went wrong, Benioff says, “[Lucasfilm] ended up not wanting to do a First Jedi story. We had a very specific story idea in mind, and ultimately they decided they didn’t want to do that. And we totally get it. It’s their company and their IP, but we weren’t the droids they were looking for.” (Their overall concept still might happen — last year, Lucasfilm announced a movie titled Dawn of the Jedi from director James Mangold.)

 

[Set Harth]

What am I missing here?

They turn away the Dynamic Duo because they don't want to do a dawn of the jedi story, only to announce a dawn of the jedi movie from Mangold?

 

[Tuskin38]

They turn away the Dynamic Duo because they don't want to do a dawn of the jedi story, only to announce a dawn of the jedi movie from Mangold?

It was 5 years ago, they clearly changed their mind since then.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Curious development, especially with Dawn of the Jedi on its way. I wonder after that film's release, if we'll ever find out how Weiss and Benioff's idea differs from Mangold's.

 

[valkyrie013]

wonder if they'll get a writing credit if they use there story?