How Do Social Conservative Star Fans Enjoy Star Trek?

[Lynx]

Speaking of which, my comment of "Not Always" was specifically about Trek, not about current politics. Trek sometimes portrays problems as being solved, but sometimes they are not, depending on the story.

Not sure what was offensive in my comment but hopefully that clarifies things.

The sentence you quoted was meant as a reply to Tuskin38, not to you.

It was all about forgetting to reply to your comment about "not always" whichI had planned to do but missed it in my comment with all the replies to different posters.

It's corrected now. My apologies!

 

[Sci]

I'm seldom wrong.

Erroneous.

... I'm aware of the fact that the slightest criticism of political correctness is like kicking a beehive. Someone might be offended!

It's not about "someone might be offended." It's about trying not to perpetuate oppression.

The point is that Star Trek didn't over-do it then.

What does that mean?

They managed to include such characters and make them interesting and with a purpose, not like it is today when they throw in characters just because the characters happens to be this and that and we have episodes who have to deal with those characters social life, misgivings, problems and who knows what.

I'm sorry, but what you're describing is no different than how white male characters are treated: we have episodes who have to deal with these characters' social lives, misgivings, problems, and who knows what.

The language you are using makes it sound as though you just don't want to be asked to show the same empathy for minority characters that you give to majority characters.

We didn't have one single episode whith Uhura complaining odver being ill-treated because of her color

When have ST characters complained over being ill-treated because of their color?

or Chekov in sickbay with severe anxiety because "everybody hates me because I'm Russian"

When have we ever seen an ST character in sickbay with severe anxiety because "everybody hates me because I'm [X minority group]?"

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[fireproof78]

But at least sometimes.

Sure, but this idea is not black and white. Trek, at the end, is an entertaining story about possibilities, and not always actualities.

In the future, people don't mourn, except when they do. Bigotry is gone, except against other alien races, etc.

It's not black and white, is the larger point.

 

[Lynx]

Erroneous.



It's not about "someone might be offended." It's about trying not to perpetuate oppression.



What does that mean?



I'm sorry, but what you're describing is no different than how white male characters are treated: we have episodes who have to deal with these characters' social lives, misgivings, problems, and who knows what.

The language you are using makes it sound as though you just don't want to be asked to show the same empathy for minority characters that you give to majority characters.



When have ST characters complained over being ill-treated because of their color?



When have we ever seen an ST character in sickbay with severe anxiety because "everybody hates me because I'm [X minority group]?"

What the hell are you talking about?

You just don't get it.

In fact, your reply is so typical for what I meant when I stated that the slightest criticizm of political correctness is like kicking a beehive because someone will be offended and twist my comment into something far worse than it was ever meant to be.

I'm simply stating that Star Trek back in the days of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY could handle such issues without damaging the storytelling as such or the characters as such, something current series and movies can't because they are over-doing it. That affects all TV-series and movies today, not only Star Trek.

I never stated that any Star Trek characters were complaining over "being ill-treated because of their color" or "in sickbay with severe anxiety because "everybody hates me because I'm [X minority group]?"

I was stating the opposite, that Star Trek could handle such things without over-doing it and letting it hamper the storytelling and character develoment as such. Get it?

 

[fireproof78]

I'm simply stating that Star Trek back in the days of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY could handle such issues without damaging the storytelling as such or the characters as such, something current series and movies can't because they are over-doing it. That affects all TV-series and movies today, not only Star Trek.

Except, that wasn't the case. There were several issues that Star Trek would treat with kid's gloves, if they touched them at all. There was perpetuation of misinformation, due to poor information on Native Americans with Chakotay, or the struggles with acknowledging that addiction is very real rather than a thing of the past.

Star Trek was not as progressive as it liked to pretend to be, especially TNG. Rewatching Night Court and Golden Girls has shown that there are shows more willing to address social issues far more appropriately than Trek would do so at times for fear of causing offense around different demographics.

That fear is always present. That has not changed. Our awareness might have changed, but the limits are as self-inflicted as they were in the past.

 

[Sci]

You just don't get it.

In fact, your reply is so typical for what I meant when I stated that the slightest criticizm of political correctness is like kicking a beehive because someone will be offended and twist my comment into something far worse than it was ever meant to be.

I'm simply stating that Star Trek back in the days of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY could handle such issues without damaging the storytelling as such or the characters as such, something current series and movies can't because they are over-doing it.

What. Does. That. Mean?

What do you mean, "over-doing it?" How are they "over-doing" it? How are they "damaging" the storytelling or the characters?

Because all you're giving us is a vague feeling that you find watching members of minority groups unfun, for reasons you refuse to articulate.

 

[Lynx]

What. Does. That. Mean?

What do you mean, "over-doing it?" How are they "over-doing" it? How are they "damaging" the storytelling or the characters?

Because all you're giving us is a vague feeling that you find watching members of minority groups unfun, for reasons you refuse to articulate.

I see no reason to continue this discussion since you are constantly twisting and exaggerating everything I try to explain.

You're vauge feeling about this and that is not even close to what I try to explain. It's all about you being offended because I happened to mention overdone political correctness together with the constant doom-and-gloom scenarios which we have in current series, movies and books.

It has nothing to do with "me finding watching members of minority groups unfun", it's about how too much political correctness hampers the storytelling and the characters in many series and you don't like that I criticized it. Therefore you have to come with insinuations about racism or whatever, just simply draw the "racist card" to make me look bad.

This happens every time someone questions political correctness and I'm sick and tired of it.

 

[UssGlenn]

No?

I never understood the furor over "So and so can't play X role." It's a dramatic presentation. I have enjoyed a variety of plays with roles play but diverse actors because they are the ones available.

It was for Night at the Museum, someone (on Twitter, I think) criticized the casting of a white guy as an Pharaoh. He wasn't famous yet, and they didn't bother to google that he's ethnically Egyptian. It was hilarious.

 

[fireproof78]

It was for Night at the Museum, someone (on Twitter, I think) criticized the casting of a white guy as an Pharaoh. He wasn't famous yet, and they didn't bother to google that he's ethnically Egyptian. It was hilarious.

People need hobbies.

 

[Tuskin38]

it's about how too much political correctness hampers the storytelling

This doesn’t happen. Or at least I’ve never seen it happen

with the constant doom-and-gloom scenarios which we have in current series, movies and books.

There’s plenty of shows and movies that aren’t about doom and gloom, you just need to look for them.

This happens every time someone questions political correctness and I'm sick and tired of it.

Then stop questioning it.

 

[fireproof78]

Then stop questioning it.

Nope, not a chance in hell. I may not 100% agree with Lynx on this one, but the idea that it should never be questioned is something I flatly reject. The very foundation of the scientific process is questioning cause and effect. To question something should be an opportunity for reflection not silence.

 

[Nyotarules]

Yes, I know, thank you for the sarcasm, and that was Hollywood in the old days. I understand the problem. Hopefully were it done now, it might be cast more realistically - what did Egyptians and Hebrews look like 4000 years ago anyway? Something else interesting to research.

Exodus, Gods and Kings, story of Moses and the Israelites starring......whiter than white Christian Bale, a 2010 movie.
So, nope nothing has changed

 

[fireproof78]

Exodus, Gods and Kings, story of Moses and the Israelites starring......whiter than white Christian Bale, a 2010 movie.
So, nope nothing has changed

I really want the biblical epic to make a come back and do some deep diving with rabbis on the story and explore it again with appropriate casting.

I would enjoy that a lot. *returns to his video on commentary on Exodous.*

 

[Nyotarules]

I see no reason to continue this discussion since you are constantly twisting and exaggerating everything I try to explain.

You're vauge feeling about this and that is not even close to what I try to explain. It's all about you being offended because I happened to mention overdone political correctness together with the constant doom-and-gloom scenarios which we have in current series, movies and books.

It has nothing to do with "me finding watching members of minority groups unfun", it's about how too much political correctness hampers the storytelling and the characters in many series and you don't like that I criticized it. Therefore you have to come with insinuations about racism or whatever, just simply draw the "racist card" to make me look bad.

This happens every time someone questions political correctness and I'm sick and tired of it.

The Neutral Zone is a good place to discuss political correctness, take it over there

 

[Shawnster]

You realize that your point depends on everyone who reads this knowing exactly who the Spice Girls are?

"no one remember them"

Baby Spice was my favorite.

One of them was black, yeah. Melanie Brown. (I forget her spice name.)

Scary Spice

I actually appreciate Mel B. based on her appearances on Dancing with the Stars and America's Got Talent.

 

[Orphalesion]

The point is that Star Trek didn't over-do it then. They managed to include such characters and make them interesting and with a purpose, not like it is today when they throw in characters just because the characters happens to be this and that and we have episodes who have to deal with those characters social life, misgivings, problems and who knows what.
.

Uhura, Chekov, Zulu were *so* just there "just because'.
And if I understand you correctly...you are complaining that characters other than the direct white male lead get screen time and development? What?

Also...which characters are you talking about? Which ones do you feel are forced? What's "forced" about Stamets and Culber? What's forced about Mariner? What's forced about SNW's Uhura? I think they are all very natural and interesting characters who are definitely not reduced to their sexuality or ethnicity. I particularly care for DISC, but that's because of the plot, not the characters.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Just like bl***y Spice Girls if you remember them. "We're gonna have a bunch of attractive singing girls. There will be one blond girl, one red-haired girl, one dark haired girl, one Afro-British girl and one girl who actually can sing. Then we give them some commercial bland songs which they can perform."

You missed nothing, even so, they sang all the way to the bank....
"The Spice Girls have sold 105 million records worldwide,[16][17][18] making them the best-selling girl group of all time,[19][20][21] one of the best selling artists, and the most successful British pop act since the Beatles.[22][23][24] "
Proof that sometimes making money is not about talent but marketing

If you wanna enjoy Star Trek, you gotta get with my friends.

Spoiler: Spice Girls - Wannabe (Upscaled to 4K)

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[Forbin]

Then stop questioning it.

Oh. My. God.
There it is.

 

[Tuskin38]

Oh. My. God.
There it is.

That's not what I meant. If you keep doing something that leads to something that annoys you, don't do it.

If you keep pinching yourself and hurts, stop doing it.

 

[Forbin]

Exodus, Gods and Kings, story of Moses and the Israelites starring......whiter than white Christian Bale, a 2010 movie.
So, nope nothing has changed

We can hope, but I suppose it's because the stable of A-list actors is predominantly white (which, yeah, should change).
I very much enjoyed Speilberg's new version of West Side Story, thanks to appropriate casting of the Latin characters. It's been my favorite musical for ages, and I love Natalie Wood's performance (IMHO one of the most beautiful actresses ever), but even so, the brownface and cartoon accent have been wearing thin with me in recent years. Young Rachel Zegler, though maybe lacking Natalie's charisma, did an outstanding job and is an amazing singer (one-upping Natalie being dubbed). Unfortunately they cast a dead fish as Tony .
And yeah, my other favorite musical, JC: Superstar, gives us another whitebread Jesus. Great singer, tho. I look at the show as a buncha college kids getting together to tell the story.