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What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

I thought everything about that episode was dumb. And Akiva Goldsman's explanation for why he felt the change was needed is just ridiculous.

Apparently, a 56-year old story needed updating to keep things "aspirational" and believable, but in the same episode where you're putting in these edits for this believability you have the main characters doing things that aren't believable to a modern audience ...

(e.g., checking in to hotels without ID, crossing modern international borders without passports, traveling from Toronto to Vermont, a 14-hour trip by car, in ... what? A taxi cab?)

... And the only explanation given by the script for why all of that is possible is "chess money."

The biggest problem I have with Strange New Worlds is it could of done “Yes, and…” and arguably achieved similar results. Instead of fiddling with Trek's past, introduce new species and new places. Add on to the franchise’s narrative instead of reinterpreting what’s come before.

And at a certain point this gets into the same issue Star Wars has with letting go of the Skywalker family. Either your IP can move beyond the initial set of characters and settings to explore new ground or it can't. Either every story needs to connect to someone named Skywalker, and edit in a new aspect to Anakin Skywalker's past, or you can world build within the setting to explore other places and other characters that connect to the central themes.

I didn't really like "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" that much for pretty much your exact reasons. (And I am sick of time travel being used so damned much in ST.) I gave it a 7 strictly because the character work was so great... it's my lowest rated episode of the series after "Subspace Rhapsody", which I gave a 5.

The whole reason of trying to match the franchise history with our own to stay aspirational is ridiculous. You can still BE an inspiration and aspirational and not be tied to our own history. Truthfully, saying that kind of thing is actually insulting the intelligence of the audience.
 
Hey Star Trek, since you are a progressive show about the future, how about showing progress and giving us something new instead of retreading TWOK over and over again?
Trek is no longer that franchise. It rests on its laurels.
The whole reason of trying to match the franchise history with our own to stay aspirational is ridiculous. You can still BE an inspiration and aspirational and not be tied to our own history. Truthfully, saying that kind of thing is actually insulting the intelligence of the audience.
Really?
People felt insulted by this?:vulcan:
 
It's certainly possible. Thinking the audience isn't smart enough to be inspired by STAR TREK unless it fits with actual history? I'd call that insulting the intelligence of the audience.
Interesting.

Even though Trek has aligned itself with our history again and again but this time it's insulting to a large group of people's intelligence?
I don't get it. :shrug:
 
Interesting.

Even though Trek has aligned itself with our history again and again but this time it's insulting to a large group of people's intelligence?
I don't get it. :shrug:
It has?

The same Akiva Goldsman had no problem diverging from our modern present when he oversaw Picard season 2, since we're not gonna be sending a manned mission to Europa next year. Or capable of some of the technology of Adam Soong.

Some of us are just trying to understand the line of logic where that fits, but genetic supermen in the 1990s doesn't.
 
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The whole reason of trying to match the franchise history with our own to stay aspirational is ridiculous. You can still BE an inspiration and aspirational and not be tied to our own history. Truthfully, saying that kind of thing is actually insulting the intelligence of the audience.
The REAL kick in the head is going to be when they start writing about how the United States won the revolutionary war in 1778 by assassinating King George III and then using the might of the British Empire to annex France.

Because if a fictional global war in 1996 is on the table, why stop there? It doesn't have to be OUR history.

Some of us are just trying to understand the line of logic where that fits, but genetic supermen in the 1990s doesn't.
World War III in the 1990's doesn't fit. (And yeah, the spaceflight stuff in season 2 was stupid. But that's probably redundant.)

Like I said, there are "near future" events from most of Star Trek that aren't coming true (Shaun Christopher has to be in his forties or even fifties by now and he hasn't gotten to Saturn yet). But none of them are on the same scale as World War III.

For some reason Star Trek keeps coming back to that.
 
It has?

The same Akiva Goldsman's had no problem diverging from our modern present when he oversaw Picard season 2, since we're not gonna be sending a manned mission to Europa next year. Or capable of some of the technology of Adam Soong.

Some of us are just trying to understand the line of logic where that fits, but genetic supermen in the 1990s doesn't.
The Voyage Home.

The 90s LA in Voyager.

It does when it suits it purpose, or saves it money. I see this as no different. And honestly, the push for Trek being aspirational as connected to our humanity has been going on since Roddenberry did a lot of lecture tours. There's the whole push on how inspirational Trek is to various people, and then it gets tied back to cell phones, and the Enterprise shuttle, and people in the field, and Steven Hawking and on and on.

Star Trek would rather tie itself to our history and has done so for decades now. Goldsman is just affirming this.
For some reason Star Trek keeps coming back to that.
I blame Roddenberry.
 
Interesting.

Even though Trek has aligned itself with our history again and again but this time it's insulting to a large group of people's intelligence?
I don't get it. :shrug:

Not really. TNG - ENT almost never went back in time to the (then) modern day. It was the near future, like the 2020s or further in the past like the late 19th century. Except for the two-parter "FUTURE'S END" and "CARPENTER STREET", they didn't go to modern times... and those didn't have huge events happening in that current time.

They weren't trying to match ST history with our own.
 
Not really. TNG - ENT almost never went back in time to the (then) modern day. It was the near future, like the 2020s or further in the past like the late 19th century. Except for the two-parter "FUTURE'S END" and "CARPENTER STREET", they didn't go to modern times... and those didn't have huge events happening in that current time.

They weren't trying to match ST history with our own.
Voyage Home, Future's End, and such do that.

Trek pulls from its our history and claims aspirational status because of it. That is not new.
 
Trek is no longer that franchise. It rests on its laurels.

Was NEM the first time they tried to homage or be inspired by TWOK? (Nebula battle (well, INS had a nebula battle), logical main character sacrificing his life to save the Enterprise)

The same Akiva Goldsman had no problem diverging from our modern present when he oversaw Picard season 2, since we're not gonna be sending a manned mission to Europa next year. Or capable of some of the technology of Adam Soong.

Also, no Sanctuary Districts. Seven and Raffi pass a Sanctuary District.
 
Was NEM the first time they tried to homage or be inspired by TWOK? (Nebula battle (well, INS had a nebula battle), logical main character sacrificing his life to save the Enterprise)
I would say First Contact was as well.

It just took it a different take on it, but the themes of an old enemy, and revenge and sacrifice are all there.

Just not the death of a main character.
 
The REAL kick in the head is going to be when they start writing about how the United States won the revolutionary war in 1778 by assassinating King George III and then using the might of the British Empire to annex France.

Because if a fictional global war in 1996 is on the table, why stop there? It doesn't have to be OUR history.


World War III in the 1990's doesn't fit. (And yeah, the spaceflight stuff in season 2 was stupid. But that's probably redundant.)

Like I said, there are "near future" events from most of Star Trek that aren't coming true (Shaun Christopher has to be in his forties or even fifties by now and he hasn't gotten to Saturn yet). But none of them are on the same scale as World War III.

For some reason Star Trek keeps coming back to that.

^^this

In relation to our world, our world from the eyes of people who wrote it in 1966, or in the self-contained-and-not-directly-in-ours Star Trek universe that was first written in 1964 and fleshed out for decades since?

It isn't our history. It's Earth's history as described in the TOS universe. Like with the movie "Demolition Man", the future history set up is a couple decades too soon and the writers are using arbitrary numbers at random because it's the future... - but it's usually easier to swallow the show and its claims before the (real life fact*, such as the year/date) told is met in our real-life world. After that, anyone digging into the show might be able to separate their universe from ours, or laugh at it. And/or reactions.

* One "real-life fact" is that we know sound cannot travel in the vacuum of space. Hearing a ship go "zappety zap" doesn't take us out of it. For at least two reasons (it's their universe/physics, and because it's drama and those audible cues can have a point...) Granted, other episodes that whip out the timer regarding radiation exposure start to get a little woolly, and the "dermal healer" with its pretty blue glow has me rolling my eyes every time because it's utter codswollop. Thankfully it's not used often and it's the visual equivalent of crap lines like "we cured the common cold and headaches are a thing of the past", but before I digress in two directions simultaneously...​

The show is simply in its own universe first and foremost. It has to sell the audience, to get them to suspend their disbelief, and to explore the show's universe, and IMHO that's when the fun begins. Get us to believe their world, using superficial scenarios ours has experienced as a point of reference when characters themselves might not because we're not 24th century people and based on real life history, if 24th century people are just like us then that's a new can of worms, but before I digress into blap about "21st vs 17th century humans", I'll reel myself in... ...but that's what good sci-fi does, it works to get us vested in and to explore their world and it's not going to be ours.

Fun side note: It could be argued that sci-fi is honestly not that much more "out there" than any general drama or sitcom - before a certain point involving location and scenario. For example, many people can suspend disbelief and enjoy beeploads of episodes of The Golden Girls, even though there's no way any of them could have enough closet space for their massive and equally luxurious (and equally eighties) clothing collection. Indeed, one could make corny jokes about their wardrobes being TARDISes in order to even begin to fit their impressive and awe-inspiring range of ensembled (and eighties! :luvlove:) outfits as well. Now that's a crossover nobody was expecting to ever read... :devil: But plenty of sitcoms and dramas that have absolutely nothing to do with sci-fi also have some batbeep-crazy underpinnings, which aren't any less "out there" just because they're not on a ship in space.
 
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Prequels are more trouble than they're worth. With the exception of early-Discovery (which I like for several other reasons), I've gravitated towards none of them within Star Trek. The only prequel I'm truly a fan of as a prequel is Better Call Saul. It's VERY hard to pull off, if your goal is to blend into what something is supposed to be a prequel to.

It's like walking. It's easier to walk forwards than to walk backwards. It takes a lot more effort and skill to do a good prequel than a good sequel.
 
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