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Out of all the enemies which could have potentially returned in Generations…

Timofnine

Saintly henchman of Santa
Premium Member
I mean, I can kind of understand why they chose to bring back Khan after Space Seed. But Lursa and B’Etor? Did TNG not produce any truly ‘Khan level’ villains in the shows entire seven season run?

If you could have brought back any TNG enemy or other wise antagonistic/villain character for Generations, who would you have chosen? Borg not included.

I would have chosen… erm… Nagilum or Armus.
 
Instead of the Duras Sisters, I would've used DaiMon Bok. It would've been great seeing a Ferengi Marauder on the big screen. I wish they had kept the Duras Sisters around to use more on DS9. I would've loved to see what they would've been up to in the Federation-Klingon War or the Dominion War. When I think about it, even having Bok pursuing the Nexus could work because he could be seeking thinking he could use it to bring his son back.

It's also a shame we never got Q in a movie.
 
I strangely agree with having Lursa and B'Etor in Generations. If you're a movie-goer in 1994 who's seen the Star Trek movies but didn't watch much or any TNG, then having Klingons as enemies serves as a transition. I also agree with @Tosk that the writers probably didn't want anyone who would overshadow Soran. Renegade Klingons led by Lursa and B'Etor were the perfect hired muscle for Soran.
 
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I mean, I can kind of understand why they chose to bring back Khan after Space Seed. But Lursa and B’Etor? Did TNG not produce any truly ‘Khan level’ villains in the shows entire seven season run?

If you could have brought back any TNG enemy or other wise antagonistic/villain character for Generations, who would you have chosen? Borg not included.

I would have chosen… erm… Nagilum or Armus.
How exactly could Nagilum or Armus fill the role the Duras sisters had in Generations?
Was Khan even a "Khan level" villain before TWOK?
 
I'm not sure I see how Nagilum or Armus could possibly have served a clear story purpose in Generations.
Armus could have lived on the Veridian III surface, being a puddle which Kirk stepped in. Nagilum could have lived in the Nexus? :shrug:
 
Made sense to me, they would have wanted to appeal to fans of the movies who may not have watched much of TNG and everyone knows what a Klingon is even if not the characters.
 
Did the film need old characters dug up for all that SUS goodness? "Small universe syndrome" helps a franchise not. Soran should have been formidable alone, and him scheming and finding a way to breach the Big-D may have been more compelling. It's bad enough that Soran is inconsistent with both the "villain" and "sympathetic character" tropes, and hiring the bestest biggesty super-dee-duper actor isn't going to improve on that one bit, as only so much can be done to what's in the script, and MacDowell was rather inspired casting. For a wishy-washy role where the deleted scenes actually had the menace and threat to the crew that was desperately needed!!! We see Geordi being tortured as Soran fiddles with the VISOR, and the original demise of Kirk had more dramatic weight, but test audiences hated that, so we got... another joke scene about "captain on the bridge on the captain" the moment Picard gets down there to gawk at Kirk, before "burying" him on a mountaintop by covering him in a bunch of rocks...

Lursa and B'Tor would be known to diehard fans who saw the arc culminating with "Redemption", but given the number of TNG fans, having to explain them to newbies wouldn't have been an issue. What we did get was a line about them trying to reclaim the empire -- with a decades' old ship that's falling apart and with the threat of a trilithium weapon that destroys stars. He gave them the instructions on how to create another and they didn't plot or outright kill him afterward either (thank 1701-D for arriving on cue)... Plus, it's not like the other time when an old character was dug up: In TWOK, nobody had spent 15 minutes regaling us with the events of "Space Seed" to clue in casual moviegoers, either. They knew how to weave in the backstory and summarize the past while keeping to the present. It's really well done.

Besides, the small universe syndrome fun doesn't stop there. The next movie uses the Borg, with DS9 ship designed to fight the Borg that almost gets destroyed, one Queen, and they forgot how to adapt since they send just one cube... and have time travel technology but won't use it until after suffering massive losses in a battle they didn't need to wage... the first 10 minutes are so loaded with needless problems, but before I digress... At least VOY has "Dark Frontier" where they send a massive fleet of - lo and behold - two cubes to assimilate a species after trashing their 39-ship fleet, and there's nothing presented apart from a one-liner that humanity is any more special, so maybe the next Borg attack will have two cubes, a diamond, a moon, a horseshow, and three lucky clovers...


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Really great scene; the lighting, direction, acting, and music just sweeten the pot. Wish the whole movie's story was as consistent, but it sure did look and sound sumptuous...
 
Armus could have lived on the Veridian III surface, being a puddle which Kirk stepped in. Nagilum could have lived in the Nexus? :shrug:
How exactly does this work with in the framework of the movie? Bad guy named Soran is blowing up Suns so he can get back to the Nexus. Why would Nagilum be in the Nexus? How did Armus get to Veridian III?
 
Well, Armus arguably got the ultimate punishment, eternity in a hell of his own making. But if he escaped, he would be a very scary big bad. Scarier than the Klingon Kleavage duo in any case.
 
Well, Armus arguably got the ultimate punishment, eternity in a hell of his own making. But if he escaped, he would be a very scary big bad. Scarier than the Klingon Kleavage duo in any case.
Would he be willing to work as Soran's flunky?
 
Made sense to me, they would have wanted to appeal to fans of the movies who may not have watched much of TNG and everyone knows what a Klingon is even if not the characters.
Which is funny because Generations relies on multiple plot points from TNG so more casual fans may still be lost if they just tune in once in a while.
 
Armus could quite as easily come back as Khan did in The Wrath of Khan. All that it would take is for an away team to randomly beam down to the planet that Armus is trapped on by mistake and unknowingly step or fall in to his puddle. Armus could even be a bit like the black oil from X Files, being a connected consciousness of tar like goo even when separated in to Petri dishes or test tubes. Even a sample of Armus taken onboard of a ship for study would be dangerous, his sample may begin to grow or even ‘infect’ people. :eek:

Nagilum, or a similar being, could also be at the centre of the Nexus energy ribbon, like a spider in the middle of a web luring in those that it contacts with a make believe, drug like reality which anyone who enters does not want to leave and would fight to return to if they ever escaped…. Those that are willingly trapped inside the Nexus become Nagilum’s play things for him to observe, study and feed off. He may even begin to warp people’s Nexus dream realities in to nightmares when he becomes bored of them.
 
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If I had gone to Generations having never seen an episode of TNG, I wouldn't know who the heck Armus or Nagilum were and be totally lost (and maybe even more so with the explanation). On the other hand, Klingons were already known to viewers of both TOS [movies] and TNG, and in that capacity, served as a connection between the two eras that didn't need much dialogue for everyone to understand. The Duras Sisters filled the role as second-rate henchmen to the main bad guy that quickly got what was coming to them once photon torpedoes started flying...
 
If I had gone to Generations having never seen an episode of TNG, I wouldn't know who the heck Armus or Nagilum were and be totally lost (and maybe even more so with the explanation).
Someone probably said the same thing to Nicholas Meyer back in the early 80’s about Khan.

I paraphrase:

If I had gone to The Wrath of Khan having never seen an episode of TOS, I wouldn't know who the heck Khan or his genetic supermen were and be totally lost (and maybe even more so with the explanation). :D

I think that if the writers are good enough, anything and anyone could potentially be brought back. One day they may even bring Armus back, but this would need to be very cleverly written and I would imagine it almost being like a horror episode (I admit it would likely *not* happen in a film, especially one like Generations :D).

The Duras sisters were cool in Generations, though if *they* could quite randomly be brought back and accepted by a new audience, my point is that I believe *anything* could have been brought back. Any returning or *new* character is only as successful as they are written for the target audience of the time. Whether the character is returning or not is irrelevant to the casual audience, they do not care and only want a well written character in a good story which they can enjoy watching. :techman:
 
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