Jim Kirk is entirely capable of, and it is in character for him to be, sophomoric as hell. IMHO.
Why Is "Into Darkness" So [imagine a different, more accurate past participle here]?
- Thread starter TedShatner10
- Start date
Certainly. That doesn’t make it a good scene though, nor does it mean that I would think of it as anything other than crappy.
It's almost like it establishes aspects of Kirk's character that are still present from ST 09. It's almost like he still has room for growth as a person.
Crazy talk, I know...
Crazy talk, I know...
John Harrison being Khan made absolutely no sense to me at all, as Khan's name implies someone of a different ethnicity. Harrison is a white guy. I agree that he should have been his own villainous character and leave it at that.
All of the fighting scenes between he and Spock don't entirely work for me, either, but then I generally find fight scenes, like car chases, boring.
So much of the film I've forgotten because once they revealed that Harrison was Khan, I just said "oh, this is TWOK," and I had already seen a better version of that film than this one was. In fact, I thought it was poor writing that they didn't come up with a new plot instead of rehashing the old one.
I haven't seen the film in years, though. Maybe I would feel differently about it if I saw it again, today.
While I agree that going to the TWOK well (again) was annoying, taking the film as "just TWOK" is really undercutting both films. TWOK is one approach to this problem, while Into Darkness is a whole other. It weaves in the cold superiority of Khan's character with the desperation of a Starfleet stricken to its core from a recent attack. It's Kirk still finding his way, rather than looking back and regretting his current state in life.
Khan ism in some ways, Kirk's dark mirror, as is Marcus in the film. Kirk, at the beginning, has no regards for rules. He knows better, as Pike illustrates. And what does Khan say. "I'm better. At everything." In essence saying the rules don't apply to me. Same with Marcus. So, Kirk is faced with multiple consequences for his decisions and then sees further what that would do to Starfleet as a whole when the leader decides the rules no longer apply.
TWOK's similarities aside, DARKNESS has more thematic similarities with THE DARK KNIGHT...some of which are referred to directly above.
You could make similar cases that SUPERMAN begat ROBOCOP, and ROBOCOP begat DARKMAN, at least structurally.
I would agree, and also with BATMAN BEGINS.
It was one of the few times with STAR TREK that as I sat in the theater and the movie was playing that I felt it was being topical to real world politics, as I was following news stories about drone kills being authorized in different ways. It was very interesting.
The idea that this film somehow is just a pale shadow of TWOK ignores what the film was trying to do. Unfortunately, it was also bound by the same idea the DARKN KNIGHT was-a certain villain must show up in a Trek/Batman film.
It was a successful allegory in my view, though having Kirk say ''That's not who we are'' is too much of a Presidential quote. Otherwise the second Abrams TREK satisfied me the most.
I can see that but I'm too much of a philosophy learner to find that strictly a presidential quote.
He's genetically engineered, and whatever colour his makers want him to be.
And now in SNW, he's Indian ethnicity but Canadian
Sikh's currently have 800,000 adherents in Canada.He's genetically engineered, and whatever colour his makers want him to be.
And now in SNW, he's Indian ethnicity but Canadian
TUC is notable in this way.
You get the idea how quick it was on the way back. I don’t think there were any cuts there
Scotty upgraded the engines from Spock Prime's notes about journeying to the center of the galaxy and the edge of the galaxy.
Yeah, the return trip is the problematic one.
Even the trip from Earth to Vulcan was ridiculously short in the 09 movie. Not only did they get there in a few minutes, Nero had already decimated the fleet by the time they arrived. Even if it took - I dunno - HOURS longer to get there than they portrayed, the Enterprise only left orbit a few seconds after the rest of the fleet. Spock gets from the hanger deck to the bridge via turbolift in seconds. In a straight line. The Bad Robot films play with time and distance for the sake of breakneck pacing. You either accept it or you don't
My only issues with STID in the end were the use of Khan (which wouldn't have bothered me if they were up front about it and cast a little more appropriately) and the line for line TWOK recreations. They wanna have Kirk sacrifice himself to show his growth? Fine. They wanna have this event be along the lines as what Spock did in the 1982 movie? Okay. They wanna have Spock grief-stricken and realize that he and Kirk really are friends? Fair enough. But the use of the same lines and the really strained "Khaaaan" (which is a classic because of Shatner thank you), which probably seemed clever and fun to the production and even some fans, just felt cheap to me. My eyes rolled hard in the theater. And don't get me started with McCoy decided to futz around with a tribble (where did he get it?) and Khan's blood out of nowhere just so they can plant that seed for Kirk's revival later.
I liked the overall story, I liked Cumberbund Bandersnatch's performance, and I loved seeing the Enterprise knocked out of warp, that was a new sight. But I'm tired of Trek's continual pushing of the Khan button and I don't care how many times they want to keep shouting that Khan is Kirk's greatest adversary, he never really was. Christ, Kirk beat him TWICE and the first time wasn't even that hard. He was just Kirk's adversary in The Best Star Trek Film Ever Decided. Kruge did more permanent damage to Kirk than Khan.
My only issues with STID in the end were the use of Khan (which wouldn't have bothered me if they were up front about it and cast a little more appropriately) and the line for line TWOK recreations. They wanna have Kirk sacrifice himself to show his growth? Fine. They wanna have this event be along the lines as what Spock did in the 1982 movie? Okay. They wanna have Spock grief-stricken and realize that he and Kirk really are friends? Fair enough. But the use of the same lines and the really strained "Khaaaan" (which is a classic because of Shatner thank you), which probably seemed clever and fun to the production and even some fans, just felt cheap to me. My eyes rolled hard in the theater. And don't get me started with McCoy decided to futz around with a tribble (where did he get it?) and Khan's blood out of nowhere just so they can plant that seed for Kirk's revival later.
I liked the overall story, I liked Cumberbund Bandersnatch's performance, and I loved seeing the Enterprise knocked out of warp, that was a new sight. But I'm tired of Trek's continual pushing of the Khan button and I don't care how many times they want to keep shouting that Khan is Kirk's greatest adversary, he never really was. Christ, Kirk beat him TWICE and the first time wasn't even that hard. He was just Kirk's adversary in The Best Star Trek Film Ever Decided. Kruge did more permanent damage to Kirk than Khan.