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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)

  • Total voters
    185
Christopher said:
It would suck if this film did badly, because of course executives would use it as an excuse to fall back on the old sexist line that it "proves" female-led action movies can't succeed, even though they never say the equivalent when a male-led movie flops.
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It's not 2005 anymore; Catwoman and Elektra didn't just come out and bomb. From the Frozen and Alice in Wonderland movies, to The Nutcracker and the Four Realms and A Wrinkle in Time to the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy and Rogue One, to Ahsoka and Willow, to Black Widow and WandaVision and She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel, Disney hasn't exactly been reluctant to feature women in action-adventure roles in recent years. (And that's not even counting projects in which women are basically action co-leads, including Mando S3, Lightyear, Hawkeye, The Dial of Destiny, or upcoming projects like Echo, Agatha, The Acolyte, the upcoming Rey movie...) What's more, I'm pretty sure there are a lot more women execs than there used to be, and they're quite rightly advocating for more equality in gender representation.

The upshot? If The Marvels disappoints, it's hardly likely to spell doom for female action-adventure lead characters. Ergo, it's probably okay for even feminists to wait to see how good this latest over-budgeted product from predatory mega-corporation Disney before rooting for its financial success.


TREK_GOD_1 said:
I felt the showrunners had Sam speak of Steve like someone who accepted the bitter reality of Steve being dead
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Agreed, Mackie's performance seemed quite clear. I was only commenting on the writing - that if Steve had passed, only briefly mentioning it once was a missed opportunity for heartfelt dialogue, but that would have really committed the MCU to that development.
 
Set Harth said:
Just stop eating for a few hours.

It's doable.!
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Considering I lost about 45 kilograms in weight because of a anxiety/OCD driven eating disorder..... ;) ;) ;)

I am saying this in a fun way because I've learned to make fun of it to deal with it
 
I thought they said Steve was living on the moon? Am I misremembering? I haven't watched FOTWS since it premiered.
 
Gaith said:
It's not 2005 anymore
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People assume that progress is linear, but in my experience, every time some ground is gained, it's temporary and old prejudices reassert themselves. When I was a kid in the '70s, TV had plenty of female action heroes like Isis, the Bionic Woman, Wonder Woman, and Wilma Deering, but then macho culture reasserted itself, and everyone acted like it was unprecedented when we had heroines like Ripley and Sarah Connor in the '80s, and then it was unprecedented when we had Buffy and Xena in the '90s-'00s, etc. There's always a pushback. After reading Maureen Ryan's Burn it Down, I'm more aware of how deeply entrenched the old boys' network is and how much the appearance of change has been performative. Look at how David Zaslav pretty much gutted all the progress Warner Bros. had made in hiring diverse executives, cancelled projects centering on historically underrepresented groups, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I hope you're right and things are different now. But I've learned to be cautious. Eternal vigilance is the price of progress, because there are always people who will roll things back if we let our guard down. I just don't want them to gain one more excuse.


The upshot? If The Marvels disappoints, it's hardly likely to spell doom for female action-adventure lead characters. Ergo, it's probably okay for even feminists to wait to see how good this latest over-budgeted product from predatory mega-corporation Disney before rooting for its financial success.
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By the same token, it's appropriate to wait and see before writing it off as a failure. Just in general, waiting for actual facts is always better than jumping to conclusions prematurely.
 
Gaith said:
From the Frozen and Alice in Wonderland movies, to The Nutcracker and the Four Realms and A Wrinkle in Time to the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy and Rogue One, to Ahsoka and Willow, to Black Widow and WandaVision and She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel, Disney hasn't exactly been reluctant to feature women in action-adventure roles in recent years. (And that's not even counting projects in which women are basically action co-leads, including Mando S3, Lightyear, Hawkeye, The Dial of Destiny,
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A disappointingly large number of movies you just listened were either outright flops, were divisive, or just landed with a thud. Several of them made money, but Frozen is the only unqualified hit on the list.
 
UssGlenn said:
A disappointingly large number of movies you just listened were either outright flops, were divisive, or just landed with a thud. Several of them made money, but Frozen is the only unqualified hit on the list.
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Not sure that proves anything, since if you pick any random selection of movies or shows, the majority of them will be failures. You'd need to compare it to the success/failure ratio of other categories in order to make a meaningful assertion.
 
Mage said:
So, personal opinion based on what I am experiencing with many of movie fans in my friends group....

Box office numbers mean two things..... Fuck and All.

Many of the people in my circle HATE going to movies. Expensive, obnoxious excuses for humans ruining the experience of just enjoying a movie, crap snacks, forced to follow set times of viewing. They have realised that sitting at home and watching it home is just as good.
Yes, some directors will force you to believe that watching it on the big screen is a better experience. Personally, I've enjoyed many movies AS much at home as in the cinema. Or just enjoyed them at home without seeing them in cinemas.

Covid has also gave us a better perspective on patience. So, waiting a month or three to watch it at home ain't no thing. There's plenty of time to watch other things while we wait. It all good.

So yeah, early ticket sales also mean two things.... It's also Fuck and All.
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We have a smaller TV, it's only 40in, and just the TV's basic sound, and there are some movies that really need to be seen with the biggest screen and best sound set possible, so we're still been going to the theater fairly regularly. Now, if we eventually get to a point where we can get a bigger TV and a bigger sound set up, we probably won't be going nearly as much.
 
TREK_GOD_1 said:
Not surprising, since there seemed to be something of an enthusiasm deficit for Captain Marvel in the years since her 1st film--IOW, there did not appear to be a strong interest in the idea of a CM sequel.
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I think the interest waned since it has been 4 and a half years since her debt movie. It was a billion dollar success at the time and who didn't love it when she headbutted Thanos? But then we had Covid, marvel studios focused on TV shows, there were no Avengers movies.... Compare that with Captain America who had only 2-3 year gaps between movies and in between those films he had a large role in Avenger movies. Captain Marvel just hasn't had the same opportunities to shine and develop as a character.
 
The problem is that if a white male led action movie flops, it just flops. But a female led or a POC male led action movie flops, many toxic fanboys tend to use their failures as a sign for the "failures of wokeism, especially in action movies. And their responses tend to be so loud and persistent that too many start listening to and agreeing with them.
 
Dee1891 said:
The problem is that if a white male led action movie flops, it just flops. But a female led or a POC male led action movie flops, many toxic fanboys tend to use their failures as a sign for the "failures of wokeism, especially in action movies. And their responses tend to be so loud and persistent that too many start listening to and agreeing with them.
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That is very true. And at the same time, there are also cases where the backlash against those toxic male fanboys has created a lasting change. Look at the Hugo awards, which have now become pro BIPOC/LGBTQ2+ award where just a few years back it was hijacked by toxic male fandom.
 
theenglish said:
Look at the Hugo awards, which have now become pro BIPOC/LGBTQ2+ award where just a few years back it was hijacked by toxic male fandom.
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Rather, they tried to hijack the Hugos by gaming the system to get their approved "slate" nominated in many categories, but the voters overwhelmingly voted for "No Award" in those categories to make sure they didn't win, and the rules were subsequently changed to prevent that kind of cheating.
 
theenglish said:
That is very true. And at the same time, there are also cases where the backlash against those toxic male fanboys has created a lasting change. Look at the Hugo awards, which have now become pro BIPOC/LGBTQ2+ award where just a few years back it was hijacked by toxic male fandom.
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On a tangent, but the newly released Starfield caused a bit stir among the Altright when it was discovered you could use "They/Them" Pronouns in character creation.

Cue certain folks ranting and screaming about how gaming has been "corrupted" by "forced modern politics".
 
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