Will TOS maintain its legendary status as Trek fandom gets younger?

[fireproof78]

I'm just not into nostalgia obsession to where it leads to bash anything new. Every Fandom seems to become that and it makes online discussions toxic

But that's the times we live in. This is railing against a cultural movement. People are being told the world is ending on a daily basis so thru grab what's comfortable and familiar.

At every turn Trek fans have pushed against the new, demanding the familiar. You said people don't know history but part of Trek's fandom history is resistance to new and convinced of the superiority of the old.

That's not a TOS fan thing.

 

[MikHutch]

But that's the times we live in. This is railing against a cultural movement. People are being told the world is ending on a daily basis so thru grab what's comfortable and familiar.

At every turn Trek fans have pushed against the new, demanding the familiar. You said people don't know history but part of Trek's fandom history is resistance to new and convinced of the superiority of the old.

That's not a TOS fan thing.

I agree it's not just a tos fan thing but I've only encountered tos fans like that on this site.

Anyways, maybe the fandom could do well to not be so readily opposed to everything new. Which is highly ironic considering the nature of a futuristic sci fi franchise

 

[fireproof78]

Anyways, maybe the fandom could do well to not be so readily opposed to everything new. Which is highly ironic considering the nature of a futuristic sci fi franchise

That's a human thing.

It requires a lot of work, introspection, reflection and development to recognize the value in the new. Hell, start with changing your favorite food. Is that easy?

 

[MikHutch]

That's a human thing.

It requires a lot of work, introspection, reflection and development to recognize the value in the new. Hell, start with changing your favorite food. Is that easy?

Ofc it's definitely not easy but positive change rarely is

 

[fireproof78]

Ofc it's definitely not easy but positive change rarely is

Then perhaps we should not be so quick to call out smugness and instead model more positive fan behavior.

 

[MikHutch]

Then perhaps we should not be so quick to call out smugness and instead model more positive fan behavior.

So you're putting this on me?

 

[fireproof78]

So you're putting this on me?

Nope.

Change starts with all.

 

[MikHutch]

Nope.

Change starts with all.

Sure but you only seem interested in calling me out. When I'm the one saying this kind of dialog isn't helpful. No offense, but I'm not really sure what you're all about.

I'm not just going to pretend everything is all good. If people are being toxic, I'll call them out. Pointing out smugness isn't part of the problem so Idk what you're getting at

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Then perhaps we should not be so quick to call out smugness and instead model more positive fan behavior.

That’s exactly what I’ve said to him before.

Didn’t work.

 

[fireproof78]

Sure but you only seem interested in calling me out. When I'm the one saying this kind of dialog isn't helpful. No offense, but I'm not really sure what you're all about.

I'm not just going to pretend everything is all good. If people are being toxic, I'll call them out. Pointing out smugness isn't part of the problem so Idk what you're getting at

It's not effective. At all.

 

[MikHutch]

It's not effective. At all.

Well, you're not helping.

Let's move on. I'm tired of this

 

[fireproof78]

Well, you're not helping.

Let's move on. I'm tired of this

Proving my point of effectiveness.

No change. Just silence.

Very well.

That’s exactly what I’ve said to him before.

Didn’t work.

It's not easy to make changes at all, especially when people see things that cross our values. Smugness is one few people tolerate and feel the need to call out. See Kohlberg and his theory of moral development.

But, what is being shown in current research is that change, actual change, comes not from punishment, but relationship and connection with a person's values. It requires that introspective look, but more than that it requires effort at relationship and willingness to ignore behavior that we find against our values and model more positive behavior.

None of that is easy. Which guarantees I will have a job for a long, long, long ass time.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Which guarantees I will have a job for a long, long, long ass time.

To be fair, he joined the board and wandered into a discussion that was… well, not the best introduction to the board.

Regardless, he was welcomed, by myself and others.

But this is the result. A lot of name calling and then sulking. You have more patience than me, but then I guess that’s part of your job.

I think he’s got me on ignore now anyway. Oh well. Moving on and back to the original topic!

 

[fireproof78]

But this is the result. A lot of name calling and then sulking. You have more patience than me, but then I guess that’s part of your job.

An occupational and personality hazard that bites me in the ass more often than not.

But, that's a whole other discussion.

 

[Lord Garth]

On whether or not any Kurtzman era Star Trek would be greenlit on CBS Proper, NBC, ABC, or FOX, I have to take back what I said that none of it would be greenlit. I actually think they'd greenlight Picard Season 2. "What?! Are you crazy?!?!!" Hear me out.

75% of it takes place in the Present Day. So it mostly doesn't look like a Space Show and if they drop the first two episodes, and start off right in 2024, and have some exposition, you've got something the networks could run for a season, before they cancel it.

 

[drt]

TNG, I don't know. I lean towards it wouldn't have lasted.

TNG is a weird case, it had no staying power with the popular conciousness, but people forget how popular it actually was in the early 90s. I recall reading articles about how some stations in major markets aired it against network TV and it frequently outdrew them. The issue being is it took it a couple of seasons to get there so probably wouldn't have made it to that point on network TV.

Surely most things that are "legendary" are things about which people know very little apart from the name and some (often incorrect) facts. Legendary books tend not to be read by most people; legendary films are not watched; legendary historical characters are frequently caricatures. On that basis TOS will be legendary as the "first" and as the basis for that which followed. People will say "beam me up, Scotty" and remember the name of Spock.

Whether or not TOS will still be watched is irrelevant.

I'd say we're at that point with TOS already. ST09 essentially gave us the "pop culture" versions of the characters and not so how much they were actually depicted.

I even find that a fair number of Berman era fans aren't all that familiar with TOS, there's an impression that because the Berman productions recreated a couple of sets and models for some "very special" episodes that those shows strongly adhered to TOS continuity, when that isn't really the case.

 

[fireproof78]

I'd say we're at that point with TOS already. ST09 essentially gave us the "pop culture" versions of the characters and not so how much they were actually depicted.

Except, it wasn't TOS.

 

[Lord Garth]

TNG is a weird case, it had no staying power with the popular conciousness

I only agree with you up to a point. Among Boomers, probably not. Among Zoomers, I'd say probably not as well. Among Generation X and Millennials, especially older Millennials, I don't agree.

Like I've said a bunch of times: Almost all my friends who like Star Trek, IRL, only like TNG. Making me the oddball. At least when it comes to TV. Some of them like the TOS Movies too, but that's as far back as it goes. Whether you want to attribute that to quality, different tastes, or really more because of when they grew up (the '80s and '90s), I'll leave to the people here to figure out.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think there's some overlap, but I think TOS and TNG are two different fandoms that too many people try to pass off as one, when I think it's actually not. If you like TOS and TNG, you're really part of two fandoms. Just like there are Batman fans and Superman fans. I'll let you decide who's who. But I guess that would make VOY Wonder Woman.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

TNG is a weird case, it had no staying power with the popular conciousness,

Certainly not the wider culture across the world. Anyone would be hard-pressed to walk down the street of anyplace and find people who would even be vaguely familiar with TNG cast images, dialogue, catchphrases, or recall a single episode plot, and that includes the series' supposedly greatest hours. This was a "hit" series which ran for nearly a decade, spawned four films and was the fuel for three sequel series, yet its status--its energy in popular culture is barely a nightlight, when it should be the sun.