Poll Subspace Rhapsody or Buffy’s Once More, With Feeling

[Cyrus]

Not a Buffy fan so haven't seen the episode, probably will never see it.

 

[FredH]

Didn't Sarah say as much, but she hired a singing coach and tried the best she could because the episode demanded it? Geller of course isn't the best singer, but she did still carry that episode and it was great to see.

Oh, certainly. As an actor, she was terrific in that episode, and pretty much every other one.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

…look, I’m sorry, and I realize that it’s a matter of personal opinion—but my personal opinion is kind of flabbergasted. Romjin, Peck and mostly even Mount may not have pro singing careers, but they carried their tunes; Brendon literally can’t (in exactly the same way, and in the same register, that I can’t — we both sound like we have sore throats), and Gellar… I absolutely love Sarah Michelle Gellar, but singing just isn’t one of her pro talents; she sounds like she has a cold throughout OMWF. Marsters may have a band, and good for him, but that doesn’t change that there’s just no tune when he sings. (Compare with Head, Caulfield & Benson, who are beautiful singers.) I guess we just hear them differently, somehow.

Yeah, no.

Gellar sounds good throughout the episode. Amazing? No. But neither are Mount or Peck. Romijn is almost as bad as Brendan and unlike Brendan, who got paired up with the amazing Caulfield and was given plenty of opportunity to make up for his singing with his strong comedic timing, the episode does absolutely nothing to help cover up Romijn's issues, even very unwisely putting her in a solo.

As far as Marsters is concerned, well.. ya nuts. That's a great song incredibly well performed.

 

[FredH]

Yeah, no.

Gellar sounds good throughout the episode. Amazing? No. But neither are Mount or Peck. Romijn is almost as bad as Brendan and unlike Brendan, who got paired up with the amazing Caulfield and was given plenty of opportunity to make up for his singing with his strong comedic timing, the episode does absolutely nothing to help cover up Romijn's issues, even very unwisely putting her in a solo.

As far as Marsters is concerned, well.. ya nuts. That's a great song incredibly well performed.

…I can only assume we’re living in divergent timelines, somehow superimposed. We’re clearly hearing very different things, and I find your specific descriptions here as inexplicable as you apparently find mine.

Well, glad you enjoyed Gellar’s and Marsters’ vocal performances, of course.

 

[Mudd]

I checked out clips from Wynona Earp on YouTube, and it looks like a complete BTVS clone. Is there more to it than that?

 

[Roald]

I think it’s unfair to compare a ‘classic’ with something that is only two weeks old…

I loved Once More With Feeling, and I think the episodes are pretty close in terms of quality.. I think someone who is new to both episodes and watches them with no prior knowledge or nostalgia will not say any ep is a ‘million times’ better than the other.
I also am kind of surprised that Once More With Feeling gets so much credit, when Xena’s Bitter Suite was released years earlier…..

 

[tomalak301]

I think it’s unfair to compare a ‘classic’ with something that is only two weeks old…

I loved Once More With Feeling, and I think the episodes are pretty close in terms of quality.. I think someone who is new to both episodes and watches them with no prior knowledge or nostalgia will not say any ep is a ‘million times’ better than the other.
I also am kind of surprised that Once More With Feeling gets so much credit, when Xena’s Bitter Suite was released years earlier…..

Who is to say SR won't become a classic though. Ok, maybe I should have done this poll a year from now, but I've already listened to this soundtrack many times and I'm loving some of the songs more and more each time.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I think it’s unfair to compare a ‘classic’ with something that is only two weeks old…

I loved Once More With Feeling, and I think the episodes are pretty close in terms of quality.. I think someone who is new to both episodes and watches them with no prior knowledge or nostalgia will not say any ep is a ‘million times’ better than the other.
I also am kind of surprised that Once More With Feeling gets so much credit, when Xena’s Bitter Suite was released years earlier…..

I mean, Buffy was a more broadly succesful show than Xena, so I suspect more people have seen OMWF. And I think even among Xena fans not everyone actually loved the Bitter Suite. I know I personally didn't care for the music in that one at all, either, though the story was good.

 

[Mudd]

This episode and the one with the cartoon characters are going to be at least on par with "The Trouble With Tribbles" as far as popularity in the fan community goes. And it probably won't take long.

 

[Roald]

Who is to say SR won't become a classic though. Ok, maybe I should have done this poll a year from now, but I've already listened to this soundtrack many times and I'm loving some of the songs more and more each time.

I agree! I bet SR will become a true ST classic..! And imho opinion no Buffy song comes close to ‘How Would That Feel’ or ‘Keep Us Connected’..

 

[tomalak301]

I agree! I bet SR will become a true ST classic..! And imho opinion no Buffy song comes close to ‘How Would That Feel’ or ‘Keep Us Connected’..

Yeah, those were the two songs that actually made me create this thread in the first place. I know OMWF is a classic, but I've had those two songs on repeat since the episode aired and I would put them up against any song from the Buffy episode, maybe with the exception of "Walk Through the Fire".

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

This episode and the one with the cartoon characters are going to be at least on par with "The Trouble With Tribbles" as far as popularity in the fan community goes. And it probably won't take long.

I don't see this getting anywhere near Trouble with Tribbles.
The crossover only with big LD fans like myself but many fans hate it also.

 

[Ringobeatle]

I really enjoyed "Subspace Rhapsody," but this one is no contest. "Once More, With Feeling" is superior on every level -- the music is better; the musical storytelling structure is better; the emotional stakes are higher and more engaging; the cast performances are better aside from Celia Rose Gooding; and the musical structure is better (there are no complex interlocking duets in "Subspace Rhapsody" like Giles's and Tara's duet in "Under Your Spell/Standing (Reprise)," the finale of "Subspace" doesn't have the sort of Sondheim-esque complex interlocking melodies from multiple characters like in "Walk Through the Fire," there are no lyrical reprises with complex hidden meanings); the dancing is better in "Once More" (nothing in "Subspace" matches the demon Sweet's tap dancing number in "What You Feel"); there's not nearly enough done to establish a sense of rising tension beyond "shit what if we can't keep our feelings a secret?" whereas "Once More" literally establishes that the cost of life being a musical is that "some customers just start combusting;" and the grand finale of "Subspace" doesn't have that emotional gut-punch that Buffy's revelation to her friends at the end of "Something to Sing About" has.

Sorry, Star Trek. "Subspace Rhapsody" was a solid B+, but "Once More, With Feeling" is the A+ gold standard of integrating the musical format with the hour-long serialized television drama format.

Subspace Rhapsody additionally handles the romance arc better with memorable songs that did connect to the plot.

 

[Sci]

Subspace Rhapsody additionally handles the romance arc better with memorable songs that did connect to the plot.

I mean, I don't want to take away from "Subspace Rhapsody"'s handling of the Spock/Christine arc, since I think it found a way to depict a breaking point in their relationship that was believable and emotionally honest, and I really like how "I'm Ready" and "I'm the X" use the same melody. On the other hand, the conflict between Chris and Marie was just... an absolute nothing-burger that had no emotional stakes whatsoever. Chris doesn't want to go on the vacation Marie has picked out, and Marie is upset that he won't take her call. .... what? who cares?

And as much as I liked "How Would That Feel?," the fact that La'an's big revelation to Jim wasn't a song in and of itself as a bad creative choice. Like, sure, there's an in-universe justification, but I don't care. That should have been a song. That should have been a big, grand, "A Little Fall of Rain"-style I'm-confessing-my-love-and-getting-my-heart-broken and I-don't-want-to-hurt-you-but-I-can't-go-there song.

By contrast, I think "Once More, With Feeling" handled all three of its relationship subplots better, and all three of them are just brimming with tension and conflict and secrets:

• Anya and Xander, whose happy 50s-style dancing tune masks the fear both experience at the thought of a truly life-long commitment when they marry;
• Spike and Buffy, with Spike making it clear he doesn't want Buffy in his life if she won't reciprocate his feelings and Buffy attracted to him because of the self-destructive ennui she's experiencing after being ripped out of Heaven;
• And most beautifully/heartbreakingly, Tara and Willow; Tara sings this gorgeous, inspirational, beautiful love song where she declares to Willow, "I'm under your spell / Nothing I can do / You just took my soul with you / You worked your charms so well / Finally, I knew / Everything I dreamed was true / You made me believe"... And then later in the episode, she discovers that Willow had violated the sanctity of her mind by subjecting her to a mind control spell to cause her to forget a fight. This bitter, heartbreaking reprise follows: "I'm under your spell / God, how can this be? / Playing with my memory / You know I've been through Hell / Willow, don't you see / There'll be nothing left of me! / You made me believe..." The bitter echo!

Like, "Subspace Rhapsody" was good, but "Once More, With Feeling" is just operating on a whole higher level with its relationships.

Also, the more I think about it, the more convinced I become that it is an absolute sin that Spock and Christine did not have a reprise of their songs as a break-up duet.

 

[Ringobeatle]

I mean, I don't want to take away from "Subspace Rhapsody"'s handling of the Spock/Christine arc, since I think it found a way to depict a breaking point in their relationship that was believable and emotionally honest, and I really like how "I'm Ready" and "I'm the X" use the same melody. On the other hand, the conflict between Chris and Marie was just... an absolute nothing-burger that had no emotional stakes whatsoever. Chris doesn't want to go on the vacation Marie has picked out, and Marie is upset that he won't take her call. .... what? who cares?

And as much as I liked "How Would That Feel?," the fact that La'an's big revelation to Jim wasn't a song in and of itself as a bad creative choice. Like, sure, there's an in-universe justification, but I don't care. That should have been a song. That should have been a big, grand, "A Little Fall of Rain"-style I'm-confessing-my-love-and-getting-my-heart-broken and I-don't-want-to-hurt-you-but-I-can't-go-there song.

By contrast, I think "Once More, With Feeling" handled all three of its relationship subplots better, and all three of them are just brimming with tension and conflict and secrets:

• Anya and Xander, whose happy 50s-style dancing tune masks the fear both experience at the thought of a truly life-long commitment when they marry;
• Spike and Buffy, with Spike making it clear he doesn't want Buffy in his life if she won't reciprocate his feelings and Buffy attracted to him because of the self-destructive ennui she's experiencing after being ripped out of Heaven;
• And most beautifully/heartbreakingly, Tara and Willow; Tara sings this gorgeous, inspirational, beautiful love song where she declares to Willow, "I'm under your spell / Nothing I can do / You just took my soul with you / You worked your charms so well / Finally, I knew / Everything I dreamed was true / You made me believe"... And then later in the episode, she discovers that Willow had violated the sanctity of her mind by subjecting her to a mind control spell to cause her to forget a fight. This bitter, heartbreaking reprise follows: "I'm under your spell / God, how can this be? / Playing with my memory / You know I've been through Hell / Willow, don't you see / There'll be nothing left of me! / You made me believe..." The bitter echo!

Like, "Subspace Rhapsody" was good, but "Once More, With Feeling" is just operating on a whole higher level with its relationships.

Also, the more I think about it, the more convinced I become that it is an absolute sin that Spock and Christine did not have a reprise of their songs as a break-up duet.

Christine song never made sense, Spock was not holding her back. We never even saw them really date for them to have a dramatic break up where Chapel acts like a mean girl in high school, who breaks up with a geek because she is bored.

Buffy and Spike has been building for years, OMWTF paid off for Spuffy. Spock/Christine was not earned. It was hollow.

 

[Mudd]

Christine song never made sense, Spock was not holding her back. We never even saw them really date for them to have a dramatic break up where Chapel acts like a mean girl in high school, who breaks up with a geek because she is bored.

Buffy and Spike has been building for years, OMWTF paid off for Spuffy. Spock/Christine was not earned. It was hollow.

The romance works for me.

 

[Ringobeatle]

The romance works for me.

Its not for everyone. A lot of fans seem to dislike it.The backlash of Subspace Raphsosdy was deserved. They could have written it better. without it been rushed. they came together fast and broke up so spontaneously too, I know star trek can do better.

I heard a lot of the writers of SNW have CW Network background. It all make sense why they thought having a soap opera love triangle is what star trek is about with romance when that is not the truth.

 

[Mudd]

Its not for everyone. A lot of fans seem to dislike it.

Some fans dislike it.

Backlash? Right now, the musical appears to be one of the most popular Trek episodes ever. There will always be some viewers who complain about anything.

The producers can't please everyone, so IMO they shouldn't try - just keep doing what they're doing, and they'll be fine.

 

[Ringobeatle]

Some fans dislike it.

Backlash? Right now, the musical appears to be one of the most popular Trek episodes ever. There will always be some viewers who complain about anything.

The producers can't please everyone, so IMO they shouldn't try - just keep doing what they're doing, and they'll be fine.

OMWTF is a TV Classic and very acclaimed after almost 23 years. The truth that OMWTF is winning on what is a Star Trek forum is telling. I feel subspace will go down more as more of a famous episode of star trek than one of the best episodes of television like OMWTF did.

 

[Mudd]

I feel subspace will go down more as more of a famous episode of star trek

Yep, one of the most popular, like I said.