Kotaku: As Star Wars Stagnates, Star Trek Is Flourishing

[Kaelef]

I know some of you have hated the recent "wild" episodes of SNW, but take heart: a lot of people outside the immediate fandom (never mind many/most of us in the fandom) see what's happening in the show as a Good Thing.

https://kotaku.com/star-wars-vs-star-trek-musical-ahsoka-shows-movies-1850723080

 

[Jedman67]

Star Wars is stagnating?
Did the author not hear of the success of The Mandalorian, Andor, the upcoming series debut Ahsoka?
Would be nice to have more but 3 series in one year is far from "Stagnating"

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Did the author not hear of the success of The Mandalorian, Andor, the upcoming series debut Ahsoka?

In terms of how the success of these things are measured, Andor trailed behind The Mandalorian, The Book of Boba-Fett and Obi-Wan.

https://fandomwire.com/i-thought-th...oting might,experimentation, at least for now.

As Ahsoka has yet to air, I really don't know how we can talk about it in terms of success or failure right now.

 

[fireproof78]

*blows noise maker*

 

[UssGlenn]

I have a similar silly theory about TV Trek and Doctor Who. They can't both coexist and be good. TOS is on the air a month before the the First doctor regenerates, it manages to coexist with the Second but is canceled in 69. After TOS ended Who stays strong on TV until the late 80s, it runs concurrently with TNG briefly then after Who goes off the air TNG hits season 3 and gets really good. Trek stays on the air until 2005 when Enterprise is cancelled and Who is revived with the 9th Doctor the same year. Who runs solo until the end of the 12th Doctor in July 2017, Discovery starts in September. With both Discovery and the 13th Doctor on at the same time, they are both received poorly (not enough sci-fi energy to go around?). Only 13s last episode aired after the Strange New Worlds premier (and between seasons), so it's run has been largely Who free, and thus high quality. Now there will be a large gap until SNW3 so The next Who specials can be good.

 

[The Doctor]

Given that we just got the best Star Wars content since the OT in Andor, I don't grant the premise of the article but there is something to the notion that Star Trek, being the perennial underdog, has more freedom to be weird. I mean, I love Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks but compared to the Star Wars juggernaut, Trek is very much an also-ran when it comes to cultural relevance or popularity writ large. To me the issue is the Disney storytelling 'style' for MCU has bled directly into Star Wars (no surprise, considering Favreau) and while I'm very much here for the densely plotted weaving of lore heavy stuff, it can very easily collapse under its own weight.

It's funny, because you'd think that Strange New Worlds would feel that weight being a direct prequel of TOS (or, more accurately, the follow on to the original pilot that we never got) but against all odds and reason, SNW is fresh, light and fills me with glee every time I watch an episode. Come to think of it, SNW has managed to capture the same sense of fun and excitement as the early DW revival in 2005. Both shows should have staggered and collapsed under the sheer tonnage of what came before but both found angles to re-examine past material and feel contemporary. And when DW started to become more serialized and self-reverential, it bled viewers too.

Maybe it's about finding that balance of backstory and history as flavour and texture to a story without taking over the dish. I dunno, I just hope that SNW survives the strike and comes back for at least a few more seasons of fun.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Is Star Wars stagnating?

- Andor was a very good watch and well received by critics.

- The Mandalorian had an offseason, which was partially caused by The Book of Boba Fett becoming season 2.5 of the Mandalorian.

- Despite being promising and a couple of good scenes, the Obi Wan series was pointless. I’ll give you that.

- Ahsoka is an unknown, but is promising.

- They have multiple films planned for the future, and are looking into not only progressing the story past TROS, but also a possible KOTOR adaptation. Meaning they are expanded past the Age of Rebellion stories.

There is a glut of Star Wars, but I don't really see stagnation here. They are actually trying to do new things.

 

[Mudd]

I know some of you have hated the recent "wild" episodes of SNW, but take heart: a lot of people outside the immediate fandom (never mind many/most of us in the fandom) see what's happening in the show as a Good Thing.

https://kotaku.com/star-wars-vs-star-trek-musical-ahsoka-shows-movies-1850723080

Good to hear.

The outside-the-box episodes of SNW are great for the series and great for the franchise as a whole. This is a new direction.

 

[saladdays]

I don't think Star Wars is stagnating, but it's definitely taken a hit in fan perception the last few years because of the last two mainline films. Yes, the streaming series have been generally well received (although the popularity if Andor doesn't seem to be as great as the others), but Star Trek overall seems to be in a better place currently.

 

[ashleytinger]

Star Wars is under-performing all around and they're playing it safe with a lot of material.

Sure they've hit some out of the park recently but overall people have been trashing Wars more often than Trek.

Andor was originally going to be 5 seasons long. 1 season per year before Rogue One. Notice now we're only getting a second season with a condensed timeline? It's a great show but it didn't bring in viewers like they were expecting. Book of Boba Fett ended up being a season 2.5 for the Mandalorian and was panned almost as bad as Secret Invasion was when it was dropping. They've scrapped a number of films and shows and rolled some of the ideas from Rangers of the New Republic into Mando season 3 along with Mando's season.

As much as I liked Bad Batch season 2, it has not gotten great viewership. Obi-Wan also under-performed. They'd planned that as a trilogy of films before it got turned into a show and that one season was the first film expanded and they're not going to that well again either.

They're playing it safe with things that they know work. Or think will work. The Acolyte, Skeleton Crew and whatever that Old Republic/First Jedi film they're working on are the only ones outside the box it seems. Ahsoka, as much as I am sure will love it is a sequel series to Rebels that's spring-boarded off the Mandalorians success. That is a no-brainer at this point. Neither is the film that they're planning to be the 'Avengers' of the Mandalorian TV shows. I will be extremely surprised if the Rey film isn't just a retooling of the New Jedi Order from the novels because it's something safe to play with that's been done before.

On the other hand, Strange New Worlds and even Lower Decks have been trying out new things, dipping into things we haven't really gotten before. It feels like a fresh take on old material where some of the Star Wars stuff feels like a rehash of what's come before with some minor retooling.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Andor was originally going to be 5 seasons long. 1 season per year before Rogue One. Notice now we're only getting a second season with a condensed timeline?

I thought it was always two? I'm sure I read that.

I have a similar silly theory about TV Trek and Doctor Who. They can't both coexist and be good. TOS is on the air a month before the the First doctor regenerates, it manages to coexist with the Second but is canceled in 69. After TOS ended Who stays strong on TV until the late 80s, it runs concurrently with TNG briefly then after Who goes off the air TNG hits season 3 and gets really good. Trek stays on the air until 2005 when Enterprise is cancelled and Who is revived with the 9th Doctor the same year. Who runs solo until the end of the 12th Doctor in July 2017, Discovery starts in September. With both Discovery and the 13th Doctor on at the same time, they are both received poorly (not enough sci-fi energy to go around?). Only 13s last episode aired after the Strange New Worlds premier (and between seasons), so its run has been largely Who free, and thus high quality. Now there will be a large gap until SNW3 so The next Who specials can be good.

This is very good. Whackadoodle, but it lines up.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Diego Luna is on record saying that the notion of Andor running 5 seasons was a non-starter due to the time commitment it would have required, and he also remarked that by the end of it he'd be trying to play a character almost 20 years younger than he was, given his age when he filmed Rogue One.

As to the original premise of the thread, it just reeks of the old SW vs ST 'wars' that have been raging for decades.

Both franchises have had solid hits and misses. I've always been a fan of both, always will be. My love is not a zero sum game. If I had to choose one over the other for all time, I'd choose SW. That's just my personal choice- others can have theirs. It is what it is. May the Force be with you as you live long and prosper.

 

[fireproof78]

As to the original premise of the thread, it just reeks of the old SW vs ST 'wars' that have been raging for decades.

Yup. It's the age old school yard argument.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Speaking of school yard arguments, I remember from 1977-1982, the big one was who was going to land Princess Leia: Luke or Han?

Then ROTJ released and that argument, suddenly and inexplicably, went away.

 

[ashleytinger]

Personally love them both. It just feels like Star Wars is playing it a bit safe. Still enjoy it but *shrugs*

 

[fireproof78]

Speaking of school yard arguments, I remember from 1977-1982, the big one was who was going to land Princess Leia: Luke or Han?

Then ROTJ released and that argument, suddenly and inexplicably, went away.

One of the more tragic aspects of Lucas' personal life impacting the narrative of STAR WARS. In hindsight I would have preferred he continued on with his sequels in mind, and Leia not as Luke's sister.

Personally love them both. It just feels like Star Wars is playing it a bit safe. Still enjoy it but *shrugs*

I feel they are both safe in their own way.

 

[Set Harth]

I will be extremely surprised if the Rey film isn't just a retooling of the New Jedi Order from the novels because it's something safe to play with that's been done before.

You mean you think Rey will be up against the Vong?

 

[Racefuel]

You mean you think Rey will be up against the Vong?

Please no

 

[DaveyNY]

I think this particular discussion belongs with the TV & MEDIA threads since it's not particularly relevant to just Strange New Worlds.

And any comparisons between the 2 IP's almost always goes off the rails around here.

 

[Cyrus]

I loved the first 2 Star Wars movies, and the 3rd one was good. I was a big hardcore fan. but nothing but disappointments since. It got to a point that I gave up and am no longer a fan. I haven't watched any of the TV series, will not pay for a service to watch a franchise I have given up on.

But I am still a hardcore trekkie. I have loved all the non cartoon series of Kurtzman Trek. SNW is great.