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DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

Yeah, sure it would have been nice to see Henry Cavill in a more upbeat Superman film. Or Brandon Routh in a really good Superman film. Or Jason Momoa in a good Conan film. It's not happening though. Maybe down the line somewhere, the way Tobey Maguire got to revisit Spider-Man and Michael Keaton got to revisit Batman (and, yes, Routh got to revisit Superman).
 
I feel sorry for any actor who ends up portraying Superman. The public is always demanding that the character is portrayed as some kind of "Smiling Joe". And then they complain about this and demand for Superman to be portrayed as a more complex character. And when filmmakers or TV showrunners oblige them, they complain and again demand for Superman to be portrayed as some "Smiling Joe". It's like some vicious cycle.
 
Dee1891 said:
I feel sorry for any actor who ends up portraying Superman. The public is always demanding that the character is portrayed as some kind of "Smiling Joe". And then they complain about this and demand for Superman to be portrayed as a more complex character. And when filmmakers or TV showrunners oblige them, they complain and again demand for Superman to be portrayed as some "Smiling Joe". It's like some vicious cycle.
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It is. The mythology around Superman is one that is extremely cultural, entrenched, and cyclical. It's a reason I find Batman more enjoyable. It's at least ok for him to have conflict and angst.

Superman is a character I really want to like. The baggage is something I can't handle.
 
Dee1891 said:
I feel sorry for any actor who ends up portraying Superman. The public is always demanding that the character is portrayed as some kind of "Smiling Joe". And then they complain about this and demand for Superman to be portrayed as a more complex character. And when filmmakers or TV showrunners oblige them, they complain and again demand for Superman to be portrayed as some "Smiling Joe". It's like some vicious cycle.
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Did the various TV productions get these complaints? Smallville never really seemed to, nor Lois and Clark or Superman and Lois.

Just the movies appear to get the loudest complaints from either side, really.
 
Why can't Superman be complex and happy? Have a heart of gold and unrelenting morals but still have his own struggles? Being a grim, brooding asshole doesn't really make anyone more "realistic", but Superman isn't supposed to be realistic anyway. He's literally supposed to be someone the world can look up to, who does the right thing even if its hard or unpopular. His struggles are about living his life outside the suit, things like how he balances having a life along with his self imposed responsibilities to the world as Superman. He has the powers of a god but he is a man behind the smile, and thats what makes him compelling.

The comic story "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way?", and its animated adaptation Superman vs. The Elite, is basically the perfect Superman story to show who he is and why he acts the way he does. Superman seems to be a "Smiling Joe" (whatever the fuck that condescending nickname is supposed to mean) because thats what the world needs, and its not easy, even for him.

Unfortunately that kind of complexity is too hard for many writers to understand, so we've gotten this whole movement of assshole and/or evil Supermen stories because of a lack of understanding of what makes Superman special, and the belief that being a violent asshole is more relatable, missing the entire point of Superman.
 
M'rk son of Mogh said:
Did the various TV productions get these complaints? Smallville never really seemed to, nor Lois and Clark or Superman and Lois.

Just the movies appear to get the loudest complaints from either side, really.
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I don't think many people really thought very hard about Lois and Clark at the time. Certainly looking back on the clips now its hard to understand how that show was actually a success.

Smallville mostly got complaints about how Clark was never allowed to be Superman at all (until the very end, at least) which would obviously tend to cut off complaints about what kind of Superman he was before they even got started.

It does seem to be the case that Superman and Lois (and My Adventures with Superman) are almost universally well liked, at least in the portrayal of Superman if not necessarily universally liked in terms of narrative.

Of course the question is how much of that appearance is down to self-selection. My Adventures with Superman is a brand new, anime style show on comedy central (I think?). I'd be shocked if the number of people who've even seen it isn't absolutely tiny compared to any other Superman project. And Superman and Lois being a spin-off of Supergirl and creatively tied to the Arrowverse probably means a whole lot of the people who didn't like the Arrowverse or Supergirl never bothered to tune into that, either. (I haven't myself for that reason.)
 
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M'rk son of Mogh said:
Did the various TV productions get these complaints? Smallville never really seemed to, nor Lois and Clark or Superman and Lois.

Just the movies appear to get the loudest complaints from either side, really.
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I don't think Superman fandom before Man of Steel was anywhere near as polarized as it's become since. The people who dismissed Superman as too upbeat and preferred darker heroes just didn't think much of him; it wasn't until Snyder offered a darker take that they started to feel proprietary about the character. Or so it seems to me.

Of course, there were other criticisms about those earlier productions, because fans always find things to criticize. Heck, I was certainly a vocal critic of Smallville, especially when it got so bad in season 6-7 that I stopped watching for a time. A lot of people griped about its insistence on keeping the "no flights, no tights" rule long after the show had become effectively a Superman show with plenty of other costumed heroes. As for Lois & Clark, I don't recall if I was active online yet when it was on, but I certainly had plenty of complaints about how dumb it got in seasons 3-4, and I do recall hearing complaints about the increasingly ridiculous plots it contrived to postpone Lois & Clark's marriage in season 4.
 
M'rk son of Mogh said:
Did the various TV productions get these complaints? Smallville never really seemed to, nor Lois and Clark or Superman and Lois.
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Grendelsbayne accurately pointed out the big criticism about Smallville:

Grendelsbayne said:
Smallville mostly got complaints about how Clark was never allowed to be Superman at all (until the very end, at least) which would obviously tend to cut off complaints about what kind of Superman he was before they even got started.
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But Superman TV series were never free of criticism; Lois and Clark received what I perceived as ill-minded criticism when Dean Cain was announced as being the choice for Superman, with some arguing he did not "look right" or was "wrong"" for the part. Others complained he was more Clark than a Superman in order to fit a type of romantic comedy vibe used in the series, which had been indicative of other TV series of the general era.


And Superman and Lois being a spin-off of Supergirl and creatively tied to the Arrowverse probably means a whole lot of the people who didn't like the Arrowverse or Supergirl never bothered to tune into that, either. (I haven't myself for that reason.)
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Well, the Superman and Lois showrunners confirmed that the series is not tied to the Arrowverse, including the Superman appearances on Supergirl, despite the first season not going out of its way to make the point clear.
 
Christopher said:
A lot of people griped about its insistence on keeping the "no flights, no tights" rule
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It suddenly occurs to me that this is the same thing Jon Peters wanted from Kevin Smith.
 
Personality-wise it seems Tyler Hoechlin is universally praised for his portrayal as Clark/Superman. The only criticisms I recall about him are cosmetic - beard stubble, smaller/slimmer stature, especially when standing next to other Supermen like Routh and Welling.
 
The Realist said:
As well he should be. IMO, he's the best Clark/Superman casting since Christopher Reeve, and one of the top three to date (along with Reeve and George Reeves).
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When I first saw him (announced for Supergirl), I too thought he looked too lean and too long in the face and didn’t like the stubble either. Basically the complaints that @Sketcher mentioned. But his performance won me over, he totally nails the character for me.
 
Most live action Superman actors were unimpressive, dull, or as silly as Bob Holiday's take on the character from the It's a Bird... It's a Plane... It's Superman musical. On the other side, the best representations of the character were Cavill, Alyn and Reeve.
 
Sketcher said:
The only criticisms I recall about him are cosmetic - beard stubble, smaller/slimmer stature, especially when standing next to other Supermen like Routh and Welling.
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He's also been saddled with some of the worst outfits Superman has ever worn in live action.
 
Tosk said:
He's also been saddled with some of the worst outfits Superman has ever worn in live action.
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And the best.
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kirk55555 said:
His struggles are about living his life outside the suit, things like how he balances having a life along with his self imposed responsibilities to the world as Superman. He has the powers of a god but he is a man behind the smile, and thats what makes him compelling.
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That's one of the things I really like about Superman & Lois, I think it does this better than almost any other adaptation of the character that I've seen so far. I have not seen the serials, any of the animated versions before The Animated Series, Lois & Clark, the 3rd & 4th Reeve movies, or Superboy.
 
Hm.....
After growing more and more displeased with Supergirl and The Flash, I never gave shows like Superman And Lois and Batwoman a shot.
Perhaps I should.
 
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