Spoilers Well, I guess we know now... (SNW "Subspace Rhapsody" spoilers)

[JonnyQuest037]

WARNING: SPOILERS ahead for the latest Strange New Worlds episode "Subspace Rhapsody"! Proceed at your own risk!

Well, canon has finally given us an answer to the question I posed in this old thread:

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/david-marcus-what-did-kirk-know-and-when-did-he-know-it.

As the latest SNW episode "Subspace Rhapsody" reveals, Kirk knew Carol Marcus was pregnant in 2259-60, before David was born. I personally would've preferred that Kirk not find out about David until after the TOS timeframe, but I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it.

I can live with it.

...Computer, erase that entire personal log.

 

[C.E. Evans]

To me, it seemed that Kirk always knew about David, but completely kept out of his life at Carol's request.

"I did what you wanted. I stayed away..."
--James Kirk to Carol Marcus

That agreed upon distance had the unfortunate effect of David growing up never knowing Kirk was his dad and Kirk not even knowing what David even looked like by the time of TWOK...

 

[JonnyQuest037]

To me, it seemed that Kirk always knew about David, but completely kept out of his life at Carol's request.

"I did what you wanted. I stayed away..."
--James Kirk to Carol Marcus

Yeah, but it was definitely vague exactly when they came to that agreement.

 

[1001001]

This belongs in the SNW Forum.

Moving now.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

This belongs in the SNW Forum.

Moving now.

Okay. I put it in General Trek since it hit on TWOK and TOS as well.

 

[fireproof78]

To me, it seemed that Kirk always knew about David, but completely kept out of his life at Carol's request.

"I did what you wanted. I stayed away..."
--James Kirk to Carol Marcus

That agreed upon distance had the unfortunate effect of David growing up never knowing Kirk was his dad and Kirk not even knowing what David even looked like by the time of TWOK...

Yeah, I figured Kirk knew since his birth but kept his distance.

 

[BK613]

Yeah, I figured Kirk knew since his birth but kept his distance.

Since David remembers the 'overgrown Boy Scout', I figured that at first Kirk would just show up randomly as duty permitted and Carol finally had enough of that part-time parent crap.

 

[Finn]

Yeah, I always thought TWOK made it clear.

Kirk's mannerisms didn't suggest to me it was like Beverly hiding it from Picard....

 

[DaveyNY]

Since David remembers the 'overgrown Boy Scout', I figured that at first Kirk would just show up randomly as duty permitted and Carol finally had enough of that part-time parent crap.

One would think that he was at least there for the birth and probably the first few years off and on.
David was probably 6 or 7 the last time he saw his father to have developed some semblance of memory about him.
Of course, Carol could have unintentionally soured their son by complaining about Jim constantly being gone.

 

[Dar70]

What was it he said to Gary Mitchell?? "I almost married her." I always assumed he found out about David sometimes after that comment to Mitchell....

 

[Paul755]

Yeah, I always thought Kirk knew about David but Carol made him leave before David could remember him.

Then again, they never say that David didn’t know Kirk was his father. He very well could have known and didn’t tell Kirk he knew until the very end.

 

[mattman8907]

Just give me a Farragut mini series where Kirk and Carol are part of the main cast.

 

[the G-man]

There’s so much of SNW that “plays” with TOS canon I dont think we can assume anything here is definitive vis a vis the original shows and movies.

 

[drt]

Since David remembers the 'overgrown Boy Scout', I figured that at first Kirk would just show up randomly as duty permitted and Carol finally had enough of that part-time parent crap.

It never seemed to me that David actually remembered Kirk, but that he had heard stories of him from Carol. Presumably she had brought him up during a previous "Starfleet bad" disagreement.

 

[Sketcher]

Wonder if Kirk taking command of the Enterprise will be the final straw for Carol. A five year mission in deep space feels like a valid reason for her to tell Kirk to stay away.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Wonder if Kirk taking command of the Enterprise will be the final straw for Carol. A five year mission in deep space feels like a valid reason for her to tell Kirk to stay away.

And then it turned out it wasn't all the deep into space after all.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There’s so much of SNW that “plays” with TOS canon I dont think we can assume anything here is definitive vis a vis the original shows and movies.

They've actually been very respectful of canon. They're not throwing it away. It's as definitive now as it ever was.

Wonder if Kirk taking command of the Enterprise will be the final straw for Carol. A five year mission in deep space feels like a valid reason for her to tell Kirk to stay away.

I think Carol always knew Jim was destined for a captaincy in Starfleet. She knows in her heart that they're not meant to be together. They may have dated for awhile but she knew it wasn't meant to be. And she didn't resent Kirk for that - she knew how different their careers would be, and she and Jim made the mutual decision to have Carol raise their son. No bitterness, no recrimination. Just an agreement.

 

[Greg Cox]

Yeah, I always thought Kirk knew about David but Carol made him leave before David could remember him.

Then again, they never say that David didn’t know Kirk was his father. He very well could have known and didn’t tell Kirk he knew until the very end.

At the very least, one suspects David always had some suspicions about who his dad was. Note that there's no big "reveal" scene in KHAN where David is shocked to discover that Kirk is his dad . . . because he kinda, sorta already knew that? It's just that he doesn't acknowledge the elephant in the room until the end of the movie.

As for him not recognizing Kirk in the Genesis cave . . . well, under the circumstances, having just survived a brutal attack that slaughtered his colleagues, he tackled an unexpected intruder first without really checking to see who it was. Certainly he had no reason to expect that the long-lost father he'd never known was suddenly going to show up by coincidence!

 

[Mudd]

Yeah, I always thought TWOK made it clear.

Kirk's mannerisms didn't suggest to me it was like Beverly hiding it from Picard....

Yeah, that whole Crusher-Picard business was damn stupid.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

As for him not recognizing Kirk in the Genesis cave . . . well, under the circumstances, having just survived a brutal attack that slaughtered his colleagues, he tackled an unexpected intruder first without really checking to see who it was. Certainly he had no reason to expect that the long-lost father he'd never known was suddenly going to show up by coincidence!

David definitely recognizes Kirk in the Genesis Cave. He has a moment where he looks at Kirk and mutters "You" before he lunges at Kirk with his knife. Kirk definitely doesn't recognize David at first, though, probably because he hadn't seen him since he was a kid.

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