Jenna Mitchell - hey, wait a second...

[DGCatAniSiri]

I feel like the Kyle and Mitchell thing is a side effect of something like what happened with Landry on Discovery - the role and name was cooked up separate from the casting and they didn’t just change the name when they cast someone not white in the role.

It’s the casting equivalent to the set differences of TOS and modern Trek - a show produced in the 60s had mostly white actors, and unless otherwise indicated would be cast and named as such. Now, in the 2020s, we see more diversity.

There’s no reason one way or the other for those characters to have names that reflect their race - in the 23rd century, people are going to be marrying and having kids in all sorts of combinations, keeping and losing family names as chosen.

It sounds like a no-win scenario either way - you have people angry that they don’t have racially indicative names, you’d have people angry that the only way to have non-white actors in these roles is to give them racially indicative names. If I were the one doing the casting, I’d sooner have people angry because representation on screen isn’t right than that representation isn’t there at all.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I feel like the Kyle and Mitchell thing is a side effect of something like what happened with Landry on Discovery - the role and name was cooked up separate from the casting and they didn’t just change the name when they cast someone not white in the role.

It’s the casting equivalent to the set differences of TOS and modern Trek - a show produced in the 60s had mostly white actors, and unless otherwise indicated would be cast and named as such. Now, in the 2020s, we see more diversity.

There’s no reason one way or the other for those characters to have names that reflect their race - in the 23rd century, people are going to be marrying and having kids in all sorts of combinations, keeping and losing family names as chosen.

It sounds like a no-win scenario either way - you have people angry that they don’t have racially indicative names, you’d have people angry that the only way to have non-white actors in these roles is to give them racially indicative names. If I were the one doing the casting, I’d sooner have people angry because representation on screen isn’t right than that representation isn’t there at all.

Have you seen the Americans?

Sexy cold war era russian spies posing as regular boring Americas from suberbia.

The white bread Mitchels could have been killed and replaced by Eastern Coalition Spies a century earlier, or the chinese American Mitchels could have not been killed and replaced by Russian spies in the 1980s.

 

[Yistaan]

As an Asian myself, I do have to admit that Asians named Kyle and Mitchell feel a massive step backwards even from Sulu, which wasn't even a real Japanese name...

 

[UssGlenn]

As an Asian myself, I do have to admit that Asians named Kyle and Mitchell feel a massive step backwards even from Sulu, which wasn't even a real Japanese name...

Of course, that was by design, not ignorance. Sulu wasn't Japanese until Voyage Home.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Have you seen the Americans?

Sexy cold war era russian spies posing as regular boring Americas from suberbia.

The white bread Mitchels could have been killed and replaced by Eastern Coalition Spies a century earlier, or the chinese American Mitchels could have not been killed and replaced by Russian spies in the 1980s.

Well that feels a lot like thinking way too hard as someone earlier in this thread accused me of.

Also, the spying scenario you propose does not function as a 1:1 comparison to the naming of Kyle and Mitchell considering that in real life, a lot of spies are hired for their ability to pass as a certain racial background. I would know because members of my own para-Chinese American people have been falsely accused of being PRC citizens or loyalists because we don't 'look the part' for being good Americans.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well that feels a lot like thinking way too hard as someone earlier in this thread accused me of.

Also, the spying scenario you propose does not function as a 1:1 comparison to the naming of Kyle and Mitchell considering that in real life, a lot of spies are hired for their ability to pass as a certain racial background. I would know because members of my own para-Chinese American people have been falsely accused of being PRC citizens or loyalists because we don't 'look the part' for being good Americans.

Look at my timeline.

Hypothetically Jenna Mitchel in the 23rd century, probably has no idea that her family were spies, or narrowly avoided being replaced by spies, centuries ago, considering that the Eastern Coalition and the Soviet Union both no longer exist.

In the Americans, the Russian Spies did not want to tell their children, but the Kremlin pressured Mom and Dad, because these kids had invaluable and seamlessly perfect legends.

Golly.

This is supposed to be "the same".

When it's different, there's "probably" a reason.

Everyone has the wrong face, and there's a disgusting reason for that.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Of course, that was by design, not ignorance. Sulu wasn't Japanese until Voyage Home.

Sulu was originally just "Pan-Asian".

 

[BK613]

Given the propensity of the Star Trek universe to make orphans out of frontier kids, I don't see why this particular Kyle couldn't be an adopted child.
(If you're looking for an in-universe explanation, anyway. Out-of-universe, it seems an odd choice to let the name stand as is.)

 

[Guy Gardener]

They made a replacement Uhura overnight after Nomad fried her brain. Its possible that every starfleet officer is a personality that can be quickly redeployed onto a blank canvas from a thumb drive.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They made a replacement Uhura overnight after Nomadbfried her brain. Its possible that every starfleet officer is a personality that can be quickly redeployed onto a blank canvas from a thumb drive.

Much like secondary Star Trek characters.

 

[DaveyNY]

Has anybody from the production crew actually confirmed or denied that she is supposed to be their version?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Has anybody from the production crew actually confirmed or denied that she is supposed to be their version?

Nope,

 

[Noname Given]

Has anybody from the production crew actually confirmed or denied that she is supposed to be their version?

I know - go ask the actress who played Ens. Colt (back in Discovery S2.)

 

[fireproof78]

I know - go ask the actress who played Ens. Colt (back in Discovery S2.)

Who?

I believe Colt has never been identified in dialog

 

[Tuskin38]

Colt was also never identified in The Cage either. Not in dialogue, not in the credits, Her name came from the script.

 

[fireproof78]

Colt was also never identified in The Cage either. Not in dialogue, not in the credits, Her name came from the script.

Yes, Indeed.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I know - go ask the actress who played Ens. Colt (back in Discovery S2.)

A female Jem'Hadar?

Fancy that.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It would be incredibly racist for a franchise that purports to depict a positive future to link that positive future to the genocide of a racial group or collection of nations. It's not a positive future if Asia got nuked more than Europe or North America.

And as I’ve said before, such an outcome could be the culmination of a fascist regime taking over America, and they launched nukes at Asia in prejudice. Hence the incredibly racist depiction. Which also plays into 24th century humans hating 21st century Earth.


It also not canonically clarified what happen to the Asian population. For all we know, nukes were only dropped on America and Europe. And then post-war, the Kzinti came along and bombarded the crap out of Asia from orbit because it was the largest land mass and it wasn’t irradiated. Then Cochrane loaned Asian governments warp drive technology to fight back against the Kzinti, but not so that they could form a Starfleet of their own.

Really, the lack of Asians in Star Trek can be explained away in SNW in a few lines.

“Due to a combined desire of space colonization and a desire to escape both the post atomic horror and the Kzin Wars, there was a mass exodus from Earth in space arks, the majority of these coming from the continent of Asia. Spreading out to all quadrants of the galaxy, these colonies had varying results for success; some never got off the ground, others outright failed. The few successful colonies from this exodus developed a trade network and created trade routes with other human colonies. Despite efforts over the past two centuries, a plurality of these colonies have shown little interest in being affiliated with United Earth, Starfleet or the Federation, even in the face of threats from the Romulan and Klingon Empires."

considering that the Eastern Coalition and the Soviet Union both no longer exist.

Its not canon that the Eastern Coalition doesn't exist in the 23rd century. For that matter, it's possible that the Soviet Union had a resurrection by the 23rd century too. Star Trek seems big on supranational alliances replacing the nation state as part of world government.

 

[Guy Gardener]

And as I’ve said before, such an outcome could be the culmination of a fascist regime taking over America, and they launched nukes at Asia in prejudice. Hence the incredibly racist depiction. Which also plays into 24th century humans hating 21st century Earth.


It also not canonically clarified what happen to the Asian population. For all we know, nukes were only dropped on America and Europe. And then post-war, the Kzinti came along and bombarded the crap out of Asia from orbit because it was the largest land mass and it wasn’t irradiated. Then Cochrane loaned Asian governments warp drive technology to fight back against the Kzinti, but not so that they could form a Starfleet of their own.

Really, the lack of Asians in Star Trek can be explained away in SNW in a few lines.

“Due to a combined desire of space colonization and a desire to escape both the post atomic horror and the Kzin Wars, there was a mass exodus from Earth in space arks, the majority of these coming from the continent of Asia. Spreading out to all quadrants of the galaxy, these colonies had varying results for success; some never got off the ground, others outright failed. The few successful colonies from this exodus developed a trade network and created trade routes with other human colonies. Despite efforts over the past two centuries, a plurality of these colonies have shown little interest in being affiliated with United Earth, Starfleet or the Federation, even in the face of threats from the Romulan and Klingon Empires."



Its not canon that the Eastern Coalition doesn't exist in the 23rd century. For that matter, it's possible that the Soviet Union had a resurrection by the 23rd century too. Star Trek seems big on supranational alliances replacing the nation state as part of world government.

Land masses keep the old names, but what were countries with their own governments are no longer countries with their own government. It's a United Earth that ranges outwards across the entire solar system, administered from Paris.

SNW's IMBD frontpage has three Asian, maybe Chinese looking actors playing recurring parts, and then there's a white girl with a Chinese name which means a hundred years ago she had a great grand parent who was Chinese maybe.

Evidence points towards China surviving WWIII in a way in this time-line that it did not survive in the TOS time-line, because of inclusion.

 

[Sci]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It would be incredibly racist for a franchise that purports to depict a positive future to link that positive future to the genocide of a racial group or collection of nations. It's not a positive future if Asia got nuked more than Europe or North America.

And as I’ve said before, such an outcome could be the culmination of a fascist regime taking over America, and they launched nukes at Asia in prejudice.

I don't know if you're not listening to what I'm saying or having trouble understanding it, but I'm going to repeat this one more time:

The in-universe reason doesn't matter.

Doesn't. Matter. Period.

I don't care what plot devices you use to rationalize the lack of representation for Asian people in Star Trek. I don't even care if that plot device is supposed to be one we the audience find bad.

Rationalizing the disproportionately low representation for Asian in Star Trek would be an inherently racist creative decision on the part of the writers. Period.

As long as Star Trek is supposed to be an aspirational vision of the future, its creators have a moral obligation to feature all of the world's communities as having an equal share in that future.

Really, the lack of Asians in Star Trek can be explained away in SNW in a few lines.

Don't "explain" it. Just give Asian people proportional representation and accept that the old shows' castings reflected the racist biases of production staff at the time.