Is there a major contradiction in "The City on the Edge of Forever"?
- Thread starter Adam La Forge
- Start date
So just an in-joke then. No different from Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson watching an episode of The Green Hornet on Batman and characters on The Green Hornet watching an episode of Batman.
...WTH is with people in this thread just casually discussing the latest episodes of SNW without any SPOILER TAGS, BTW?
Please have some courtesy. Not everyone watches new things at the same time you do.
Please have some courtesy. Not everyone watches new things at the same time you do.
Sorry about that. I've added a spoiler tag to my posts.
There's never been one consistent 'type' of time travel across all of Star Trek.
That's the nub of the argument. The logic of an overwritten timeline doesn't stand up in a multiverse because the multiverse contains all possibilities. Even assuming that your timeline had been 'overwritten', a version that hadn't been overwritten would still be out there for you to return to. Thus, in a unified temporal theory, the heroes are not trying to change history back but return to their own time stream the only way they know how, by 'fixing' the past.
The temporal police only exist because the characters are in a timeline where they exist. In multiverse, there are lots of other timelines where no time travellers have ever become part of history and lots where time travellers have influenced history without any temporal police.
The reason why I balk at the notion of an overwritten timeline is that the past has already happened. Either you were there or you weren't. If you were then that's because you travelled back at some point. I really don't get why anybody thinks that one character's perception of the present affects the entire universe's perception of the present in the future. You don't just pop into the past the moment you travel back. The past is not the present even if it becomes your present. It's not the universe's present. The universe exists everywhen.
So the writers have started to fudge it by the characters themselves stating outright thst they don't understand temporal mechanics.
The whole notion of "time police" protecting history is B-movie material, along with the idea of "fixing" history back "to how it should be." I've talked about the mechanics of it all up-thread, so I will not repeat that here.
The one "time cop" show I enjoyed was Time Trax. It was understood from the pilot episode onward that the fugitives who had escaped into the past could not "damage history," as it was an alternate timeline—very similar to the prime universe of our protagonist, but not exactly the same. The reason for the time cop's mission was simple: the escaped fugitives were his society's problem, and their ethical responsibility to clean up. It was not ethical to simply wipe their hands of it because it was another universe, and no potential danger to them. (The story included other "limitations," such the number of trips that could be made due to a toxic drug needed for the jump, that the jump was always 200 years—no more or less—so that synchronicity with the prime world was maintained, etc.)
The one "time cop" show I enjoyed was Time Trax. It was understood from the pilot episode onward that the fugitives who had escaped into the past could not "damage history," as it was an alternate timeline—very similar to the prime universe of our protagonist, but not exactly the same. The reason for the time cop's mission was simple: the escaped fugitives were his society's problem, and their ethical responsibility to clean up. It was not ethical to simply wipe their hands of it because it was another universe, and no potential danger to them. (The story included other "limitations," such the number of trips that could be made due to a toxic drug needed for the jump, that the jump was always 200 years—no more or less—so that synchronicity with the prime world was maintained, etc.)
Yes indeed. There’s a whole shiny forum where you can discuss SNW until your heart’s content.
Perhaps the "only way they know how" is the limiting factor for some time travel stories to have "overwritten" timelines? The technology and knowledge available to the time travelers limit their visibility to only specific timelines which to them would appear to be an overwritten timeline that needed to be "fixed". Their actions, even though it "already happened" in the alternate timeline unlocks their way back to what they would consider their timeline.
We've seen in TOS that their time travel ability and visibility could appear to them that they needed to fix the timeline to get back to what they believe is their own in "City on the Edge of Forever". The Guardian is controlling their travel and the surrounding space. Even the slingshot maneuver may also be limited to only going to specific timelines which would give them the appearance that they can change or overwrite history. Whereas warping through a quantum fissure in "Parallels" gives a more unrestricted timeline jumping process but isn't available until TNG and not without fixing the sickness that comes with hopping quantum realities. How this plays out in Enterprise's Temporal Wars and who determines which timeline is the reality of consequence, I don't know...
A temporal war plotline may be a hang over from Enterprise, since it was never resolved due to early cancellation. Maybe SNW will resolve by the Gorn turning into men in costumes and amnesia for everyone. Thanks Future Guy!Perhaps the "only way they know how" is the limiting factor for some time travel stories to have "overwritten" timelines? The technology and knowledge available to the time travelers limit their visibility to only specific timelines which to them would appear to be an overwritten timeline that needed to be "fixed". Their actions, even though it "already happened" in the alternate timeline unlocks their way back to what they would consider their timeline.
We've seen in TOS that their time travel ability and visibility could appear to them that they needed to fix the timeline to get back to what they believe is their own in "City on the Edge of Forever". The Guardian is controlling their travel and the surrounding space. Even the slingshot maneuver may also be limited to only going to specific timelines which would give them the appearance that they can change or overwrite history. Whereas warping through a quantum fissure in "Parallels" gives a more unrestricted timeline jumping process but isn't available until TNG and not without fixing the sickness that comes with hopping quantum realities. How this plays out in Enterprise's Temporal Wars and who determines which timeline is the reality of consequence, I don't know...
Gosh, I sure do love it when modern Trek shows rewrite classic episodes from decades past. Yep. Nothing better.
Nothing about "Terra Firma, Parts I & II" in any way re-writes "The City on the Edge of Forever."
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