Yep.
Khan and the Eugenics War
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I've always subscribed to the idea that in a property like Star Trek where a time travel event that could potential alter the course of galactic history is just your average Thursday evening; causality is by definition non-linear. For example: dumb weird looking and unreasonably huge squid ship goes back in time and causes Kirk's mother to go into premature labour, and kills his father, resulting in the events of his life propagating in a radically different fashion. That means every instance of "original" Kirk later going back in time and altering events (Gary Seven, humpback whales, plus whatever the other 15 temporal violations were about) either doesn't occur, or occurs differently, thus altering the timeline *before* the initial incursion. Plus of course there's all the temporal incursions that happened because of his actions, directly or indirectly (like say a surgically altered Klingon from the 24 Century planting exploding tribbles of vengeance all over the place.) So what you get is a butterfly effect that ripples both up and down the timeline as all the extra-temporal causality tries to find an equilibrium.
I find this to be a much more useful bunch of handwavy nonsense words, as it allows future writers to just do whatever and not worry overmuch about painting themselves into corners trying to explain extraneous continuity from half a century ago. Which seems to more or less be what they're going with. The Temporal Wars is a very easy "a wizard did it" for any leap of logic, because untangling the causality of a four dimensional conflict is an exercise in futility.
Also a protracted global thermonuclear exchange followed by a post apocalyptic dark age in the mid to late 21st century is an easy out for why historical records from the digital age range from sparse to inaccurate at best. Bunkers and basements filled with old paper pre-00's records and properly sealed celluloid film have a better chance of surviving with most of it's data intact than that on any kind of magnetic media.
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He had, yes.
I have a response to that involving three other characters from TNG and PIC...and I think I will keep that to myself.
Someone mentioned this from Picard S2. It's a scene that takes place on Earth in presumably 2021/2022.
However, it's so vague. There's nothing to go against that the Khan and the Eugenics tyrants already existed in the 90s, and Soong is just planning to bring that project back to life.
This Project Khan could simply be a gameplan to create the next Khan-level augment after the Eugenics conflicts. Since many found Khan to be a benevolent and charismatic leader.
When he disappeared in 1996, there were likely factions that wanted someone like him back in play.
It's also a wink and nod to Arik Soong and his Augments on Enterprise.
However, it's so vague. There's nothing to go against that the Khan and the Eugenics tyrants already existed in the 90s, and Soong is just planning to bring that project back to life.
This Project Khan could simply be a gameplan to create the next Khan-level augment after the Eugenics conflicts. Since many found Khan to be a benevolent and charismatic leader.
When he disappeared in 1996, there were likely factions that wanted someone like him back in play.
It's also a wink and nod to Arik Soong and his Augments on Enterprise.
PIC S2 happened in 2024. Just a month or two before the Bell Riots, and Nomad's launch was four years before. Both were referenced on-screen via background prop artwork.
And I would agree that Adam Soong was probably obsessed with reviving the work that produced the 1990's Augments. Obsessed enough to keep it going, and maybe even a second Khan Noonien-Singh resulting from that?
And I would agree that Adam Soong was probably obsessed with reviving the work that produced the 1990's Augments. Obsessed enough to keep it going, and maybe even a second Khan Noonien-Singh resulting from that?
Don't embed wiki images it doesn't work.
They're all the same altered timeline.
Discovery/SNW are both part of this Revised timeline. We can assume no Michael Burnham in the TOS-verse.
What's really trippy is someday they'll probably end up reinventing TNG as well. Those 80s sets, I love them but they look far less advanced and spacious compared to Nu Pike's Enterprise.
That's a wrong assumption to make.
Not necessarily. There's nothing in the original TOS-verse that says the Discovery stuff happened there, Spore drive etc.It's all exclusively within this new timeline. Though, admittedly it would be interesting to see the TOS version of Saru (for example) who may not have been a Starfleet officer in that timeline.
If the wars were delayed on Earth by 50 years.... the human population of the 23rd century should be different than the TOS verse. People who didn't exist in TOS.. would now exist.
I think the temporal agents still ensured that major players like Pike, Spock and Kirk (for example) still existed, otherwise the timeline would shift too drastically. Sera mentioned that they extrapolate all this out using equations and scenarios prior to taking action.
I mean, the Mirror Universe is broke off from the prime timeline thousands of years ago, yet all the same people seem to still exist.
This is Star Trek. It doesn't make sense, don't try to make sense of it.
They use footage of Spock from TNG in DSC Season 3.
It never diverged from the Prime Universe as far as we know thus far. Mirror Universe was always some weird looking-glass reflection of the Prime Timeline. It's origins are mysterious. Whether it's the Q extrapolating humanity at their worst, or a universe that operates as the inverse of the Prime Universe to keep it in balance somehow, etc..
Meanwhile this is straight-up cause and effect time travel alterations to the Prime Timeline, as stated within the episode itself.
They really don't. How many physical switches and buttons do you see on the Enterprise-D? None. The -D is still more advanced.
The Enterprise-A bridge in the TOS movies looks more advanced than the SNW bridge.
But I will say the SNW bridge looks more advanced than the TMP bridge.
There's only one Khan. La'an almost shot him.
Specifically, it's called the Prime timeline. I have no idea why.
I started with Nimoy Spock in ST09 being credited as 'Prime Spock'
Chris Doohan in Starfleet uniform walks by in the hall of the Enterprise: Hi, La'an!
La'an: Who are you?
Doohan Robert April: It's me, Admiral April.
La'an: You're not Robert April! You don't look anything like him!
Pike: I'm sorry Admiral April, La'an has been acting very strangely since she wandered onto the bridge in civilian clothes instead of uniform. Come on La'an, let's get you to sickbay.
La'an: Who are you?
Doohan Robert April: It's me, Admiral April.
La'an: You're not Robert April! You don't look anything like him!
Pike: I'm sorry Admiral April, La'an has been acting very strangely since she wandered onto the bridge in civilian clothes instead of uniform. Come on La'an, let's get you to sickbay.
We don't know that.
Remember, a recurring theme in this episode is that time always repairs itself. I'm sure that in the original timeline things were much the same, except for minor differences in aesthetics. At DSC's point, time has had 300 years to repair itself. It can get a lot done in 300 years.
I mean, if Sera had to deal with this when she was on Earth - and that was only a few years, relatively speaking - in 300 years, the timeline would be even more self-correcting.
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