Spoilers Does it feel to anyone else that SNW is cynically mining Trek's past glories?

[Amaris]

Funny that you mention "safe vs. risky/daring":

Because for me, DIS & PIC have been almost cynically, by-the-numbers following all clichés and tropes of "successful streaming shows":
Heavy serialisation, dark colour palette, excessive gore/violence, focus on broken characters & drama, going all-in on scale (Monstrous villains going to destroy the multiverse/all life/...) And absolutely short-changing plot-logic, Sci-fi angles if they don't lead to action, in favour of character drama and BIG EMOTIONS ALL THE TIME.

SNW for me is the more risky approach: A big budget, bright and colourful, episodic tv, trying to be both optimistic and funny, but still serious drama. Not enough action to be like "The Mandalorian". Surprisingly low stakes. High concept episodes with a lot of talking.
All of that has been done in Trek before - but, like, in the 60s and 80s.
NOTHING about that screams "guaranteed success" to modern producers.

It's not an Action show or what passes as "serious drama". It's a talk-y, plot heavy Sci-fi show with funky visuals. I'm absolutely amazed something like that got produced in the modern age - and IMO only because the "safe", cynical approach has failed twice before.

SNW is a breath of fresh air for me. As you say, bright colors, dialogue heavy, episodic, optimistic, funny, and often high concept. It reminds me more of TOS than any of the other Trek series, but with updated values.

 

[cooleddie74]

DSC tries too hard to be presitge television. SNW just tries to be fun television.

 

[Amaris]

DSC tries too hard to be presitge television. SNW just tries to be fun television.

Yep. I like Discovery, I do, and I love many of the characters, but they push too hard to be prestige TV. The constant dramatic undertones, the high concept season long arcs that don't really pay off (IMO). It does give them more freedom to include things Trek has excluded for decades, like LGBTQ+ folks visibly part of the family and participating in the story, which is great! But it's more like a showcase of Star Trek values set to dramatic music rather than a fruitful, entertaining series. Again, IMO.

 

[fireproof78]

DSC tries too hard to be presitge television. SNW just tries to be fun television.

DSC at least engages me and makes me think.

SNW is...mixed.

I like both but one definitely is my preference in terms of style to the other.

 

[saladdays]

I don't understand. Is OP just trolling? They make a post that most will disagree with, then only reply to one minor post about the show not being for them. No retort of any kind to any other post.

 

[Noname Given]

DSC tries too hard to be presitge television. SNW just tries to be fun television.

To be fair, te early days of subscriber cable were the same. On Showtime when they started the StarGate SG-1 series, the opening/pilot episode had a full on nude scene (and we all know that series quickly transformed into a very family friendly show for the most part.)

My point? Discovery was new Star trek on what was considered a new way to make/deliver content, so yeah, they tested the waters and pushed boundries to see how consumers of this new delivery method would respomd; and like what happened when cable was new, once they saw what the audience wanted, they tailored the content to be more broadly appealing to that audience.

 

[fireproof78]

To be fair, te early days of subscriber cable were the same. On Showtime when they started the StarGate SG-1 series, the opening/pilot episode had a full on nude scene (and we all know that series quickly transformed into a very family friendly show for the most part.)

My point? Discovery was new Star trek on what was considered a new way to make/deliver content, so yeah, they tested the waters and pushed boundries to see how consumers of this new delivery method would respomd; and like what happened when cable was new, once they saw what the audience wanted, they tailored the content to be more broadly appealing to that audience.

Wait...wait a gosh durn pea pickin' minute!

I thought Paramount hated the audience. Hated Star Trek! Hated it. So much so that they used Discovery to ruin all of the continuities and canons all at once. Hated it.

Now you come along, knocking on my door, and saying they did market research and adjusted? That's crazy, man!

 

[Rahul]

To be fair, te early days of subscriber cable were the same. On Showtime when they started the StarGate SG-1 series, the opening/pilot episode had a full on nude scene (and we all know that series quickly transformed into a very family friendly show for the most part.)

My point? Discovery was new Star trek on what was considered a new way to make/deliver content, so yeah, they tested the waters and pushed boundries to see how consumers of this new delivery method would respomd; and like what happened when cable was new, once they saw what the audience wanted, they tailored the content to be more broadly appealing to that audience.

Funny though how history repeats itself:
Early TNG also tried to be more "adult", with season 1 being weirdly violent & gory at times, and there was more boning going on than in all later seasons combined.

Interesting though how modern Trek is almost completely sexless, and instead ramped up the violence to bloody eyeball amputations, decapitations, cannibalism and ridiculous amounts of extreme mass murder.

For me, SNW is modern Trek slowly finding itself & it's identity again. Even if still being a bit too dependent on previous lore and well known characters. Took a bit longer than TNG. But alas, here we finally are.

 

[fireproof78]

For me, SNW is modern Trek slowly finding itself & it's identity again.

What identity? Predictable and safe space adventure, not daring too much. If so, then yes I guess that is it's identity.

More's the pity.

 

[Arpy]

It’s Akiva Goldsman’s style. He likes mining existing canon and reinterpreting it in clever and entertaining ways. It can leave you wanting more, but it can also be entertaining in its own right.

I think there’s a lot of homage to SNW. It plays with TOS and the phenomenon of it for a younger audience. It’s an entertaining adjunct series. LD the same — like a media tie in web series about the live action.

It can be really entertaining, but at times it can also leave, like with the OP, you wanting more.

I appreciate all of it, but as one who likes the high concept sci-fi stuff and the morality plays of classic Trek, I enjoy the episodes of SNW that include a thread of that stuff alongside the character work and action-adventure stuff.

 

[shyborg]

I had a similar issue with Enterprise Season 4, which I know most people loved, but I disliked. It feels like they're combing over past Trek's best work and clinging to its shirt tails. In Enterprise it was lore elements like the Klingon ridges, Augments, and Mirror Universe. In SNW it's specific episodes:

No, I don't think they're clinging to Trek mythos' shirttails and cynically mining it. I mean they are using past elements but that's bound to happen with a franchise property. But it's not done in a way that makes me uninterested or feel like bad fan fic

Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow => City on the Edge of Tomorrow

I'll let someone who's has more sleep than me can compare and contrast them. For me, I felt like it was a great character piece for La'an. Similar or not, I got a good story out of it

• Ad Astra per Aspera => Measure of a Man

  I think it's touched upon a relevant rights issue. With Data it was about utility and recognizing his status as a being. With Una and augments, it's about identity and dignity.
  

  The Broken Circle => stealing the Ent from STIII, and plot to ignite a war from STVI

These aspects may be similar but I watched the episode several times. Not once did I think I was watching "The Search for Spock" remix

Those Old Scientists => Trials and Tribble-ations

It could be more like the final episode of Enterprise... Hopefully, not of course. But crossovers and these other story ideas have been done before Star Trek and by other shared universe stories

It's inherently limiting. It's next to impossible to outdo the thing you're imitating. The best you can achieve is recreating the same feeling as the memory of the original story does. There's no creativity, no originality, no new top-tier stories that can join alongside those of the best of past Trek.

Some people will agree, some won't, some will even hold opinions from column a and b.

It's one step above going " 'member this nostalgia inducing-thing?"

Maybe, I feel like it stokes the fire of the love I have for Trek. Same way the other shows/movies, novels, podcasts, documentaries, interviews, and discussions have. It's a rich franchise that builds upon itself from big and small contributions

I like the references and crossover stuff. But I love the characters and spirit of SNW. It may have some missteps but I feel like it's a strong show with/without ties to the past

Edit, fixed up some typos

 

[fireproof78]

It’s Akiva Goldsman’s style. He likes mining existing canon and reinterpreting it in clever and entertaining ways. It can leave you wanting more, but it can also be entertaining in its own right.

If it leaves me wanting more then I think it's doing a good job. To me, that's the highlight of SNW, and DSC (again for me) that Berman era lacked. I didn't want to be in that world but I want to be in the world of TOS, SNW, DSC and such. There's a level there that appeals to me.

Do I think it will be classics? Quite frankly, I don't care. Classics, by definition, are not something I give much thought to because there is usually historical factors that are at play that I can't judge right now. So, for now, I will take the stories were I can and ignore the rest.

So, Star Trek for me.

 

[cooleddie74]

I'm glad they did hear the audience and change DSC because damn, it needed a lot of those changes. Seasons 3 and 4 were greatly improved and actually outclassed most of the episodes in the concurrent seasons of PIC.

 

[Gary Bitchell]

No. what you describe is what Picard Season 3 felt like to me.
All Trek relies on what came before it, and needs to take that ball and continue down the court. SNW does that.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

Did no one notice this scholarly breakdown of what SNW was supposed to have taken from earlier Trek, but blatantly failing on an episode title?

It's "City on the Edge of FOREVER".

 

[cooleddie74]

No. what you describe is what Picard Season 3 felt like to me.
All Trek relies on what came before it, and needs to take that ball and continue down the court. SNW does that.

Is that in response to my post or to what fireproof78 said? Because it gets awfully confusing in some of these threads with all the back-and-forth and frequent lack of direct quotes. Just wanted to clarify because, man, these threads just become a giant badminton game and there's always cocks in the air.

No pun intended.

 

[TerryTrek]

SNW for me is the more risky approach: A big budget, bright and colourful, episodic tv, trying to be both optimistic and funny, but still serious drama. Not enough action to be like "The Mandalorian". Surprisingly low stakes. High concept episodes with a lot of talking.
All of that has been done in Trek before - but, like, in the 60s and 80s.
NOTHING about that screams "guaranteed success" to modern producers.

It's not an Action show or what passes as "serious drama". It's a talk-y, plot heavy Sci-fi show with funky visuals. I'm absolutely amazed something like that got produced in the modern age - and IMO only because the "safe", cynical approach has failed twice before.

Let me clarify, it's safe for the built-in audience of Star Trek. It's the project which they likely hoped would bring fans back after the divisive approaches to STD and Picard S1 and S2. Pike, Spock, Kirk, the Enterprise, very recognizable IP. Especially after the mainstream popularity of Star Trek 2009. Two White guys as the leads. Bright 60s colors.

Story-wise essentially drawing upon the way Trek was set up in the 60s and 90s... now with modern sfx, bright colors and action. It may be somewhat talky, but we aren't getting into the intricacies of Cardassian politics like in DS9 episodes for example, the dialogue is very accessible for the 18-35 demos and the uninitiated. It's safe. Aims for fun. You can miss an episode, or several and not get lost when you jump back in. There's no convoluted and messy Red Angel storyline in play for example.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, SNW doesn't get much safer.

 

[TerryTrek]

Which isn't a bad thing. It's what Star Trek needed to be. It's keeping the franchise afloat. It started off really strong with viewership for the Season 1 premiere.

It's also good 'entry level Trek' for the uninitiated. Most episodes tend to play off of familiar stories in the pop-cultural landscape; the body-swap comedy, the 'aliens' ripoff, the time travel episode, the upcoming musical episode, etc. It's easy for new viewers to jump into.

This approach seems very intentional.

 

[fireproof78]

Which isn't a bad thing.

No one said it was.

It's what Star Trek needed to be.

Debatable.

This approach seems very intentional.

No kidding? I know people think Kurtzman and company just throw darts at a board but you don't do this business without being intentional in your choices. Some work; others don't. That's business.

Just don't tell me it's steak when it's a Mcdonald's hamburger and things will be fine.