Why not?
I don't like Kirk in TMP but that's because he's a jerk to Decker for no good reason. But, whining about age? Stages of life are challenging.
Kirk drift—misremembering a character…
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I don't like Kirk in TMP but that's because he's a jerk to Decker for no good reason. But, whining about age? Stages of life are challenging.
Wait, you reject everything post-TOS? But there's so much good content afterwards
Not like the bucket of laughs that he was after Gary Mitchell. Or Edith Keeler. Or Miramanee.
It's clearly laid out in TOS that he says he doesn't have any. He tries to reject his humanity at every turn in TOS. That's what leads him to Kolinahr in the first place.
Good thing he didn't do that.
Are... There any post-TOS series that don't hold TOS in very high esteem? Writers maybe, but nothing that ended up on screen.
Plenty of people now in their 60s and even 70s can do what they did at 40. I imagine in that century 50 would be like 30. The device of giving Kirk a son and have him be so maudlin about it was hokey as well as his interactions with Carol Marcus were maudlin "tell me what's wrong, Carol". Shatner was better than Nimoy at recovering his character but it still was off. Kirk would not have been whining about his age, IMHO. He also would have found a way to not let himself be kicked into a desk job. The writing is partly responsible for that mischaracterization.
As for Spock trying to get rid of his emotions, through the TOS series he was learning to accept and not be ashamed of his human half. There was NO explanation of why he wanted to attempt Kohlinar. It was another hokey device and Nimoy seemed to have forgotten how to play Spock. He was monotone, with none of the expression in voice and face that he allowed himself in TOS.
These are my opinions. I never really cared for most of the movies. TWOK was probably the best, and certainly TSFS had its cutsey moments. But all in all, the TOS series was much superior.
That makes no sense. He can't reject something he doesn't have. The fact that he ever tried to reject them at all proves he had them.
Plus literally dozens of scenes across TOS of him being clearly emotional, even though he usually tries to hide it and pretend it never happened soon after.
I watched the first few episodes of TNG and they were SO derivative from Trek, it was like they were just reworking old story lines, and I got impatient with it. I hear later it got more original, but the whole "living room" concept of the bridge in TNG, with the touchy feely counselor and all sitting around in the "comfy chairs" just turned me off.
My sister urged me to watch I think Enterprise, the one with T'Pol and the episode I watched had repeated comments about humans smelling bad to Vulcans, as if it were three year olds making bathroom humor jokes. After TOS, which wasn't perfect but certainly didn't descend to humor as written by three year old boys, I stopped watching.
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It's clearly laid out in TOS that he says he doesn't have any. He tries to reject his humanity at every turn in TOS. That's what leads him to Kolinahr in the first place.
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Sometimes he says he doesn't have any. Then there are times when he shows them, or as when he replies to some hurtful comments "They forget I am half human." He shows numerous emotions in TOS, calling Kirk JIm, smiling when he finds he's alive in Amok Time, etc. I don't feel like listing them all, but if you don't know them, then you don't know the Spock character well. I don't think he rejects his humanity at every turn in TOS. Not at all.
It's clearly laid out in TOS that he says he doesn't have any. He tries to reject his humanity at every turn in TOS. That's what leads him to Kolinahr in the first place.
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Sometimes he says he doesn't have any. Then there are times when he shows them, or as when he replies to some hurtful comments "They forget I am half human." He shows numerous emotions in TOS, calling Kirk JIm, smiling when he finds he's alive in Amok Time, etc. I don't feel like listing them all, but if you don't know them, then you don't know the Spock character well. I don't think he rejects his humanity at every turn in TOS. Not at all.
To an extent Holopat and I reach. Most everyone around here knows I don’t give a damn about most stuff post TOS.
It is but we work with what we have. The films assume these characters move on and have experiences that perhaps altered their perceptions, like real humans do.
TOS is just a small portion of ST though, and not always it's best
I strongly disagree
I... don't remember Kirk talking about his age at all in TMP. On the contrary, pretty much all of the actors in that movie were trying to pretend that ten years hadn't passed. Kirk realized he was out of practice after not logging any star hours in two and a half years, but I don't remember him ever "whining" about his age in TMP. Are you sure you're not thinking of TWOK instead?
I was including the movies in my estimation. Sulu shows a definite sense of humor in the "Amok Time" exchange with Sulu posted above, and in "Mudd's Women" when he's reassuring Farrell in a humorous way ("You're on duty, Johnny-o. Back to reality."). I'm sure there are other examples.
Yes, but TWOK was a movie made for 20th Century audiences and it's important to keep the characters relatable to us.
Yeah, I agree it would've been nice to have SOME indication why Spock decided to do something that extreme, even if it was just an oblique reference. ("You've been pursuing Kolinahr ever since the disastrous mission to Delta Gamma VI.")*
*Don't bother looking this up. I just made the planet name up off the top of my head.
It seems obvious to me that Nimoy's monotone was very intentional, as Spock was desperately trying to act as if he HAD successfully shed his emotions. Remember, he's coming off a profound disappointment in not having achieved Kolinahr after working YEARS to accomplish it. He's nervous about coming aboard the Enterprise again and having his emotional side stimulated by seeing his old friends and colleagues. He's not the same Spock as in TOS at all. I wish we could've seen a private moment or two with Spock in TMP that made this clearer, though.
I also think that having both Kirk AND Spock out of sorts in TMP was a bad idea, though. McCoy was the only one of the classic trio in TMP who still felt like the same guy we saw on TOS, and it has a real distancing effect. One of the many reasons that TWOK works better than the first movie is that it's only Kirk who's going through a crisis and Spock and McCoy are both doing what they can to help him through it.
You can certainly do that.
I like TMP and couldn’t care less about the rest of the films including the TNG ones which are even worse. I like about 1/3-1/2 of TNG and the bulk of that is in the first four seasons. I bailed on DS9 after discovering Babylons 5. VOY and ENT never did anything for me. And Trek beginning with the JJ films up to the present has been infantilized fluff written by those with a fourteen year old mindset.
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Indeed.
How many times was Spock critical of the expression of emotions, either by himself or by others? Lots.
How many times did Spock try to eliminate his own expression of emotions? Lots.
The idea that Spock would be motivated to try to purge himself of all emotions is a natural outgrowth of the attitudes he expressed in TOS.
It is a central point of the story in TMP that Spock realized that it was a mistake for him to seek Kolinahr, that he realized that there was more to life than simply the pursuit of logic, and that he realized that his human traits that he had generally in truth always been embarrassed by were in actuality essential to him. This is straight-up character growth, without which one doesn't even have a story, as we understand literature.
I mean, that's fine but it's quite limiting. TOS is fairly poor on expanding on its cast and on most alien races so I'd be missing out if I only stopped at TMP, which female is a bloated, self insulgent movie
Have you *watched* TOS? There was plenty of juvenile humor.
Limiting or no, "The Only Series" is kind of his shtick, and he's been wearing that same signature line for 20 years now.
You're probably too late to change his mind about it.
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