Is there a major contradiction in "The City on the Edge of Forever"?

[JonnyQuest037]

There's an article in one of the Best of Trek anthologies called "The Disappearing Bum". It explores the reason why, in Star Trek IV, the Enterprise crew isn't mobbed by Star Trek fans who recognize them.

Yeah, I've read it. I didn't think much of it.

Star Trek the TV show doesn't exist the world of Star Trek. I don't really need an "explanation" for that, because that's how TV -- and fiction in general -- works. About the only TV show I can think of where the show also exists in the world of the show is The Monkees, and that's because they broke the fourth wall all the time.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Star Trek the TV show doesn't exist the world of Star Trek. I don't really need an "explanation" for that, because that's how TV -- and fiction in general -- works. About the only TV show I can think of where the show also exists in the world of the show is The Monkees, and that's because they broke the fourth wall all the time.

Don't forget The Simpsons episode "Behind the Laughter," which revealed the characters to be actors shooting a sitcom:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behind_the_Laughter
Really good episode.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Don't forget The Simpsons episode "Behind the Laughter," which revealed the characters to be actors shooting a sitcom:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behind_the_Laughter
Really good episode.

Yeah, I had forgotten about that episode. Good call. That would certainly qualify.

 

[Timewalker]

Yeah, I've read it. I didn't think much of it.

Star Trek the TV show doesn't exist the world of Star Trek. I don't really need an "explanation" for that, because that's how TV -- and fiction in general -- works. About the only TV show I can think of where the show also exists in the world of the show is The Monkees, and that's because they broke the fourth wall all the time.

I said it was one fan's take on it - fannish speculation, and as one theory, it actually works for me.

I don't require anyone else to be impressed, but it would be nice to understand that some fans like "solving" some of the inconsistencies or questions that occur to them.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I don't require anyone else to be impressed, but it would be nice to understand that some fans like "solving" some of the inconsistencies or questions that occur to them.

...When the heck did I criticize coming up with explanations for continuity glitches? I never did that, because I'm one of those fans. Half of the threads I start here are about that sort of thing. Hell, my Star Trek Timeline is FILLED with my headcanon explanations for inconsistences throughout TOS and the franchise at large.

I found that essay to be dumb because it tried to explain something that didn't need to be explained ("Why did no one in Star Trek IV recognize Kirk's crew as characters from Star Trek?"). There's a difference between disliking one person's bit of fanon and condemning fandom at large.

You brought up "The Disappearing Bum." I said I'd read it and I didn't care for it. That's all. Don't make it into more than me disliking that one particular essay.

 

[Timewalker]

...When the heck did I criticize coming up with explanations for continuity glitches? I never did that, because I'm one of those fans. Half of the threads I start here are about that sort of thing. Hell, my Star Trek Timeline is FILLED with my headcanon explanations for inconsistences throughout TOS and the franchise at large.

I found that essay to be dumb because it tried to explain something that didn't need to be explained ("Why did no one in Star Trek IV recognize Kirk's crew as characters from Star Trek?"). There's a difference between disliking one person's bit of fanon and condemning fandom at large.

You brought up "The Disappearing Bum." I said I'd read it and I didn't care for it. That's all. Don't make it into more than me disliking that one particular essay.

And here you are, with more criticism. Just because YOU don't think this aspect needs to be explained, it doesn't mean that it's wrong for someone else to think it needs to be explained. I enjoyed the essay. It's a fun bit of speculation, and one of many possible in-universe reasons why Kirk et. al weren't mobbed as celebrities (same could be said as to why Janeway et. al weren't mobbed during their trip to the 20th century or Sisko et. al during their trip to the 21st century).

 

[JonnyQuest037]

And here you are, with more criticism. Just because YOU don't think this aspect needs to be explained, it doesn't mean that it's wrong for someone else to think it needs to be explained.

As you keep arguing against things I never said, there's no point in me saying anything else to you. Have a great day.

 

[Timewalker]

The gist of my point is that just because you didn't like something or find it worth anyone's trouble, please acknowledge that others don't share your view. I'm not demanding that you like an essay.

 

[Pauln6]

The recent SNW episode doubled down on CotEoF style time travel.

 

[blssdwlf]

The recent SNW episode doubled down on CotEoF style time travel.

Yeah. What was old is new again?

 

[Pauln6]

Yeah. What was old is new again?

Illogical though it may be, it was definitely fun.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I'm not asking for spoilers and haven't seen the show, but how can Pike's show visit the Guardian of Forever, and it still comes as a surprise to Kirk when COTEOF rolls around?

Also, it's starting to sound like all these prequels undo the pioneering aspect of TOS, and falsely portray Kirk as having gotten everywhere second, and years later. And Chapel and Uhura has seniority over him now? So they were veterans of space exploration, and TOS Kirk was the newbie?

 

[fireproof78]

I'm not asking for spoilers and haven't seen the show, but how can Pike's show visit the Guardian of Forever, and it still comes as a surprise to Kirk when COTEOF rolls around years later?

That's not quite what was meant by COTEOF vibes of time travel.

 

[blssdwlf]

I'm not asking for spoilers and haven't seen the show, but how can Pike's show visit the Guardian of Forever, and it still comes as a surprise to Kirk when COTEOF rolls around?

Also, it's starting to sound like all these prequels undo the pioneering aspect of TOS, and falsely portray Kirk as having gotten everywhere second, and years later. And Chapel and Uhura has seniority over him now? So they were veterans of space exploration, and TOS Kirk was the newbie?

If you ever do watch "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow"...

Spoiler: Spoiler

..the episode pretty much confirms a changed timeline is already in play for SNW that also suggests why it is different from TOS.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Yeah, I've read it. I didn't think much of it.

Star Trek the TV show doesn't exist the world of Star Trek. I don't really need an "explanation" for that, because that's how TV -- and fiction in general -- works. About the only TV show I can think of where the show also exists in the world of the show is The Monkees, and that's because they broke the fourth wall all the time.

Remembrance of the Daleks, late 80s. 7th Doctor. He had a little adventure in the 1960s just after the First doctor kidnapped those super hot teachers. In a boarding house, every one leaves the room, and the bbc tv announcer on the telly describes the premiere of a new science fiction show called...

Not youtube to be found.

 

[Shawnster]

I'm not asking for spoilers and haven't seen the show, but how can Pike's show visit the Guardian of Forever, and it still comes as a surprise to Kirk when COTEOF rolls around?

Carl is not in the episode, but the style or type of time travel is the same.

Time gets changed. Hero goes back in time to fix the change. Once fixed, the hero is returned to the present.

 

[Pauln6]

I'm not asking for spoilers and haven't seen the show, but how can Pike's show visit the Guardian of Forever, and it still comes as a surprise to Kirk when COTEOF rolls around?

Also, it's starting to sound like all these prequels undo the pioneering aspect of TOS, and falsely portray Kirk as having gotten everywhere second, and years later. And Chapel and Uhura has seniority over him now? So they were veterans of space exploration, and TOS Kirk was the newbie?

To date the show has cleverly utilised legacy characters so as to expand their backgrounds in unexpected but largely plausible ways. There hasn't been a massive amount of exploring the fringes of known space.

Chapel is a civilian on a research assignment who previously worked with M'Benga during the Klingon war. Uhura started as a cadet and is now an ensign. Sam Kirk is a Starfleet scientist. Kirk is a lieutenant on a different ship. Cage era Spock is struggling more with his emotions.

There are a few things that have come across as incongruous to me such as a focus on Chapel as a nurse rather than a scientist, and her displaying unexpectedly good combat skills but other things, such as a cheeky love triangle with T'Pring, have been cleverly done so they add additional context to existing TOS episodes.

The main thing that is a head scratcher is their use of the Gorn because characters who seemed to know little about them in Arena seem to know a lot more in this show.

 

[Mytran]

The main thing that is a head scratcher is their use of the Gorn because characters who seemed to know little about them in Arena seem to know a lot more in this show.

I'm rewatching SNW season 1 at the moment (with a friend who missed them last year) and regarding the Gorn; the creatures depicted in SNW are so different to the one Kirk encountered in Arena that I wonder if the "chestburster" types are going be later explained as a sort of soldier class for the leadership Gorn, and those are the ones which Kirk has never met before.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Remembrance of the Daleks, late 80s. 7th Doctor. He had a little adventure in the 1960s just after the First doctor kidnapped those super hot teachers. In a boarding house, every one leaves the room, and the bbc tv announcer on the telly describes the premiere of a new science fiction show called...

Not youtube to be found.

Did they actually name the show, though, or just tease it? Because unless they said "Doctor Who" on the episode, that just sounds like an cute in-joke to me.

 

[blssdwlf]

I'm rewatching SNW season 1 at the moment (with a friend who missed them last year) and regarding the Gorn; the creatures depicted in SNW are so different to the one Kirk encountered in Arena that I wonder if the "chestburster" types are going be later explained as a sort of soldier class for the leadership Gorn, and those are the ones which Kirk has never met before.

Spoiler: SNW Spoiler

The latest SNW episode S2E3 would suggest that "Arena", if remade for SNW, will be different and have Kirk already knowing who the Gorn are, IMHO.