Paramount loses more than a quarter of its value, analyst believes they should "just quit streaming"

[SalyutBuran]

I would say that... well, we had five Trek shows running at peak, and a couple more being discussed. Given that (1) one show has reached its planned conclusion, (2) one has been called after its last season, and (3) one appears to be about to cease to exist completely, if the P+ crew have their way... I would say that the franchise is on shaky ground at this point.

There was never any evidence that this was gonna succeed. They were targeting a younger audience and pretty much ignored the mature established audience. Which doesn't work when your young fans in a few years become mature fans.

It was 2016ish when I realized this was gonna fail and nothing has shifted that opinion. The studio created a niche science fiction show with game of thrones budgets.

the show was sold on the premise it would garner a young audience at the expense of older people. It was just a crazy scheme from the beginning.

Even for the small sliver of people who like nutrek, the way these shows are written they have a minimal rewatch factor. a real problem when you're trying to justify near term expenses with the notion that in the long term they'll benefit as contributions to their catalog.

The show was chasing young people and was written by people who are only fringe nerds. the writers wrote what they liked while chasing young people.

In the past nielson ratings would keep a production in check, ironically just look at youtube it thrives on views.

Streaming has created an environment where there's no connection to fan interest and the product.In absence of better information writers just go with what they know, which is primarily a world derived from their phones.

Season 3 of picard should have been a really bad season of nu trek, instead it was by leaps and bounds the best.

It had such a base level appreciation for tng and it was the only thing that stuck.

 

[ananta]

There was never any evidence that this was gonna succeed. They were targeting a younger audience and pretty much ignored the mature established audience. Which doesn't work when your young fans in a few years become mature fans.

You need new fans, new viewers, fresh blood or a franchise dies. We olde time nerds are not getting any younger alas. Any new productions must strike a judicious balance between old and new viewers.

Even for the small sliver of people who like nutrek

Small sliver? I think most of the fandom has now found at least something to enjoy in the new shows. Outside of the YouTube hate channels which monetise negativity and outrage.

Streaming has created an environment where there's no connection to fan interest and the product.In absence of better information writers just go with what they know, which is primarily a world derived from their phones.

Im not sure that’s true, but it’s an interesting notion.

Season 3 of picard should have been a really bad season of nu trek, instead it was by leaps and bounds the best.

Now I know we’re not on the same wavelength. I enjoyed P3 for sure, but it wasn’t particularly great in terms of writing and concept. I suspect once the afterglow has settled and people actually start playing thinking about the storyline and the many improbabilities, plot holes and lapses of logic it won’t be looked back on as quite the second coming. It did clarify for me that most fans are only after a good fanwank and as many Easter eggs and continuity references they can stuff their faces with. It’s for that reason the whole idea of “Legacy” leaves me rather cold. I guess I’m not on the same wavelength as the average fan. But IDIC and all that.

 

[fireproof78]

the writers wrote what they liked while chasing young people.

Good.

Writers,I would hope at least, should write what they like. They should not cater to one particular person or group.

 

[SalyutBuran]

Good.

Writers,I would hope at least, should write what they like. They should not cater to one particular person or group.

and when they fail to gain enough audience to justify their audiences they should take ownership of being a failure.

 

[fireproof78]

and when they fail to gain enough audience to justify their audiences they should take ownership of being a failure.

Yes, they should.

But writing while winking at the audience and saying "we know this what you like. Start that screaming and clapping" is condescending and annoying.

 

[bdub76]

Good.

Writers,I would hope at least, should write what they like. They should not cater to one particular person or group.

A Clone Wars approach would have worked better. But from what I saw, it wasn’t bad.

I watched TOS as a kid, so I don’t think a kid focused show is necessary.

 

[fireproof78]

A Clone Wars approach would have worked better. But from what I saw, it wasn’t bad.

I watched TOS as a kid, so I don’t think a kid focused show is necessary.

Clone Wars is a great example if taking some if the source material, ignoring parts of it, and reworking the characters in a way that's more positive. It's pretty dang impressive.

 

[bdub76]

Clone Wars is a great example if taking some if the source material, ignoring parts of it, and reworking the characters in a way that's more positive. It's pretty dang impressive.

And it got better the longer it aired. I didn’t feel like it talked down to its audience. Good stories regardless of age.

The problem is that CBS/P+ content in general skews towards much older audiences. A typical viewer is close to retirement age or retired. We’re talking Hallmark viewers here too. They’re unlikely to have kids that hit the age group that Prodigy aimed for. And since the show wasn’t written for a more wide audience like Clone Wars, it didn’t make its numbers. P+ needs content for a much wider audience, or they need to assume they’re not going to get subs anywhere near D+ or Netflix. I’d personally try to sell the show to D+ or Netflix.

 

[SalyutBuran]

You need new fans, new viewers, fresh blood or a franchise dies. We olde time nerds are not getting any younger alas. Any new productions must strike a judicious balance between old and new viewers.

My wife is 28 she hated discovery after 3 episodes when she was 24. at the ages of 25-26 she watched babylon 5, tng, ds9, stargate.

The shows are targeting teennagers. Who turn 20 and forget the show even exists.

Small sliver? I think most of the fandom has now found at least something to enjoy in the new shows.

You're talking about the people who aren't silenced, the people getting ignore which is the majority of the fandom.

Outside of the YouTube hate channels which monetise negativity and outrage.

Which is why these people praise Andor, For All Mankind, The Expanse, Raised by Wolves, and the Orville?

When you flat out deny people, they'll just avoid you altogether and spend their money elsewhere.

Sci fi properties suceed and fail in proportion to how much they listen to established sci fi fans.

Im not sure that’s true, but it’s an interesting notion.

That's really a basic aspect of it. And youtuber knows when their view counts tank. The same use to apply to television.

When fans didn't like something they'd know within a week.

The problem with the streaming model is that the goal is to deliver a package of shows, the value is in the total catalog. Which is a vague thing to set a value on.

Now I know we’re not on the same wavelength. I enjoyed P3 for sure, but it wasn’t particularly great in terms of writing and concept. I suspect once the afterglow has settled and people actually start playing thinking about the storyline and the many improbabilities, plot holes and lapses of logic it won’t be looked back on as quite the second coming.

Like I said the rest of trek really lowered the standards. It's easy to impress. The fact people showed so much positive emotion for a bad season, tells you had really disengaged the majority of audience.

It did clarify for me that most fans are only after a good fanwank and as many Easter eggs and continuity references they can stuff their faces with. It’s for that reason the whole idea of “Legacy” leaves me rather cold. I guess I’m not on the same wavelength as the average fan. But IDIC and all that.

Like I said, why is it I can name 5 big properties getting good reviews and phrase by sci fi folk?

Andor, For All Mankind, The Expanse, Raised by Wolves, and the Orville?

Picard was good because the people in the room, including picard acted like adults.

 

[fireproof78]

You're talking about the people who aren't silenced, the people getting ignore which is the majority of the fandom.

Convenient how the majority doesn't say anything unless someone here speaks for them.

Interesting.

Picard was good because the people in the room, including picard acted like adults.

As opposed to Discovery where they acted like...adults.

Weird.

Picard was just like other Nu Trek in story style and presentation, including the mystery box oft lamented. It just had the right buzz words to get an A from people. It wrote to the audience and talked down to them in the process.

 

[herofhyrule]

I wasn't aware that your wife constituted the majority of the fandom.

 

[Oddish]

There was never any evidence that this was gonna succeed. They were targeting a younger audience and pretty much ignored the mature established audience. Which doesn't work when your young fans in a few years become mature fans.

Absolutely false. Prodigy might have been aimed at kids, but it was Trek through and through. Most of us are adults, and we enjoyed it.

I watched TOS as a kid, so I don’t think a kid focused show is necessary.

Maybe not... but why not try to expand your horizons?

I still think there was an audience who would have given Prodigy the love it deserved... it just wasn't found in time. It joins TNG and ENT in that regard.

 

[bdub76]

Absolutely false. Prodigy might have been aimed at kids, but it was Trek through and through. Most of us are adults, and we enjoyed it.



Maybe not... but why not try to expand your horizons?

I still think there was an audience who would have given Prodigy the love it deserved... it just wasn't found in time. It joins TNG and ENT in that regard.

I’m sure an audience exists. But they’re likely D+ or Netflix subscribers, not P+ ones. It took a move from YouTube Red to Netflix to find an audience for Cobra Kai.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Of course the Paramount+ apocalypse happens just when they're about to make the Starfleet Academy show I've been waiting for since the 90's.

We need to dig out the old threads where we were predicting how long this golden age was gonna last. 5 or 6 years since Discovery's debut ain't bad.

Discovery
Short Treks
Picard
Lower Decks
Strange New Worlds
Prodigy

We'll never ever have it that good again!

 

[herofhyrule]

Well, until the next golden age rolls around, followed by another twenty-year-long drought.

 

[herofhyrule]

I'm not an expert, and this may be completely wrong, but to me it looks like the problem is that Star Trek is pretty much their only hit. It's the only reason a large number of people subscribe to Paramount+, along with maybe Yellowstone (and even then, only its spinoffs are on P+ in the US). Now, that's fine, but Star Trek doesn't tend to draw new subscribers. By and large, the people watching Star Trek on P+ subscribed for one Trek series and stayed to watch the rest and were already preexisting fans. Each new Trek series adds fewer subscribers because the chances that anyone who wants to watch it is already subscribed increases. That's why P+ has so few subscribers compared to other platforms. Paramount (like so many other companies) saw the success of Netflix and wanted to hop on the streaming bandwagon, without considering that they don't really have the library to justify having their own streaming service. If one good thing comes out of all of this, it'll be that hopefully we'll return to only having a few big streaming services (probably Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Disney+; Apple TV may be able to hang on too) instead of everyone and their uncle having their own. But either way, it's clear that Paramount+ is unsustainable, and in messing it up so badly the Paramount execs have doomed their entire company. Karma at its finest. Again, I'm not an expert, this is just how I see the situation.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I'm not an expert, and this may be completely wrong, but to me it looks like the problem is that Star Trek is pretty much their only hit. It's the only reason a large number of people subscribe to Paramount+, along with maybe Yellowstone (and even then, only its spinoffs are on P+ in the US). Now, that's fine, but Star Trek doesn't tend to draw new subscribers. By and large, the people watching Star Trek on P+ subscribed for one Trek series and stayed to watch the rest and were already preexisting fans. Each new Trek series adds fewer subscribers because the chances that anyone who wants to watch it is already subscribed increases. That's why P+ has so few subscribers compared to other platforms. Paramount (like so many other companies) saw the success of Netflix and wanted to hop on the streaming bandwagon, without considering that they don't really have the library to justify having their own streaming service. If one good thing comes out of all of this, it'll be that hopefully we'll return to only having a few big streaming services (probably Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Disney+; Apple TV may be able to hang on too) instead of everyone and their uncle having their own. But either way, it's clear that Paramount+ is unsustainable, and in messing it up so badly the Paramount execs have doomed their entire company. Karma at its finest. Again, I'm not an expert, this is just how I see the situation.

The Entire Star Trek Franchise & Yellow Stone can't sustain the "VERY EXPENSIVE" costs of running a Streaming Network.

One of the largest costs, besides the cost to produce shows is the cost of delivering data over the net.

That gets VERY EXPENSIVE, VERY FAST.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Picard was good because the people in the room, including picard acted like adults.

Picard season 3 was laughably juvenile. There was nothing 'adult' about that whiny infighting and 'whose fault is it this time?' drama. Shaw was a cute hairstyle and a trendy outift away from being a main character in Mean Girls.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I liked Picard's third season, but I liked it as a Big Dumb thing. Like the JJ films combined with the "oldies last reunion" trope.

 

[The Wormhole]

Picard season 3 was laughably juvenile.

It's actually amazing how similar Picard S3 was to the type of fan fiction I wrote when I was twelve years old. Hell, even their decision to pilfer music from all the franchise's greatest hits is also similar to how I imagined the movie versions of said fanfics back then.