Canonicity
- Thread starter Darth Thanos
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People who take the position that canon is only what Roddenberry considered to be canon, possibly ONLY TNG would be Star Trek canon.I mean, that was true of TWOK too. Are we discarding that too?
Oh, that would be fun.
Another thing that makes canon a little confusing. Gene R. himself had a habit of decanonizing things. He didn't like the way the animated series turned out, so he proclaimed that it was not canon. He also didn't like a lot of the movies. So he didn't much consider them canon either. And – okay, I'm really going to scare you with this one – after he got TNG [Star Trek: The Next Generation] going, he... well... he sort of decided that some of The Original Series wasn't canon either. I had a discussion with him once, where I cited a couple things that were very clearly canon in The Original Series, and he told me he didn't think that way anymore, and that he now thought of TNG as canon wherever there was conflict between the two. He admitted it was revisionist thinking, but so be it.
— Paula Block, 2005
— Paula Block, 2005
I'd got as far as to say that fans care way more than the people watching it too - "The Fans" tm make up what, 10% of the total viewership? Then down to 1% for the hardcore fans?
I'm so sick of the entire concept of Star Trek canon. It's the least important thing for me to consider when watching Star Trek.
People make too much of an issue over canon. It's really just a licensing thing for merchandising purposes. You can have things be totally contradictory with one another in every conceivable way, and they'd both still be canon because CBS owns and licenses both.
TOS, Kelvin Timeline, and SNW versions of the original Enterprise. Yep, all of them are canon. All of them are licensable from CBS. Merchandise can be made using any or all versions of the ship.
Badboy4Life2371's personal fan-made take on the original Enterprise. Not canon. Not licensable from CBS. Merchandise can't be made using that.
For the most part, it does come down to "if you see it onscreen in an official Star Trek production, it's canon."
TOS, Kelvin Timeline, and SNW versions of the original Enterprise. Yep, all of them are canon. All of them are licensable from CBS. Merchandise can be made using any or all versions of the ship.
Badboy4Life2371's personal fan-made take on the original Enterprise. Not canon. Not licensable from CBS. Merchandise can't be made using that.
For the most part, it does come down to "if you see it onscreen in an official Star Trek production, it's canon."
The only thing is that Paramount/CBS must think canon matters to fans, otherwise they wouldn't constantly reassure fans that everything is in the Prime Universe and everything fits together whenever the topic comes up.
I've wondered how it would have went over if Star Trek (2009) was just a clean reboot. No connection to the Prime Universe. No point of divergence. Just new versions of the TOS characters in a story and we go with it.
In some ways, I think for shows like Discovery and Strange New Worlds it would have been better if Paramount had left it ambiguous and said it may or may not be in the same continuity. That could have freed up the writers and producers to go in weird directions if they thought it worked better for their stories without having to worry that they're creating an event that doesn't fit with the established continuity.
I've wondered how it would have went over if Star Trek (2009) was just a clean reboot. No connection to the Prime Universe. No point of divergence. Just new versions of the TOS characters in a story and we go with it.
In some ways, I think for shows like Discovery and Strange New Worlds it would have been better if Paramount had left it ambiguous and said it may or may not be in the same continuity. That could have freed up the writers and producers to go in weird directions if they thought it worked better for their stories without having to worry that they're creating an event that doesn't fit with the established continuity.
The biggest thing, IMHO, about Canon is that the fan base generally needs to understand that the representation of what we see on screen isn't quite perfect reality. My favorite headcanon about it is that we're getting re-enactments of the logs. It's told through the eyes of an imperfect narrator and, because of that, there are naturally some variations and things that must be reconciled.
My basic philosophy is that I can accept deviations or questionable realism if it creates a good story. "The Inner Light" has a premise that makes no sense; a society with about 1950's level technology can create a super-sophisticated mental probe device? Doubtful. But the episode is so good, and the premise so necessary to the story, you let it slide.
It's the inconsistencies that could have been addressed with seconds of dialogue that I find irritating. For instance, if Janeway had merely mentioned making a trade for an antimatter converter or some such technobabbled up device, I wouldn't have had issue with Voyager suddenly having a lot more than 38 torpedoes.
It's the inconsistencies that could have been addressed with seconds of dialogue that I find irritating. For instance, if Janeway had merely mentioned making a trade for an antimatter converter or some such technobabbled up device, I wouldn't have had issue with Voyager suddenly having a lot more than 38 torpedoes.
I think from Paramounts point of view it was a rights issue. Filmation controlled the rights. When Filmation folded Paramount got the full rights.
I think that adds an additional fictional layer that just isn't necessary. I don't need some rationalization that what we see are "imperfect re-enactments" of what "really" happened. I prefer to just see them for what they are; episodes of a TV show. And there is no fictional universe that is 100% internally consistent.
They're pretty much having their cake and eating it too. Christine Chapel is an entirely different character, Spock's wife is now part of his everyday life not someone he met once age 7. And then clips of Nimoy's Spock are played in Discovery.
It's basically the way the X-Men movies used to do it.
I glanced at the transcript and no, it doesn't appear like it does. All it seems to imply is that Spock hasn't seen T'Pring since he has known Kirk (or at least that Kirk isn't aware of her existence and that Spock has never asked Kirk for any leave of absence) And that they were bonded when they were seven.
I assume all the rest either comes from fanon or from expanded universe material
They're the same canon, the Kelvin movies are just set in an alternate universe.
It definitely states that Uhura did not know/recognize her.
UHURA: Captain. We're standing by on Vulcan hailing frequencies, sir.
KIRK: Open the channel, Lieutenant. Vulcan Space Central, this is the USS Enterprise requesting permission to assume standard orbit.
VULCAN [OC]: USS Enterprise from Vulcan Space Central. Permission granted. And from all of Vulcan, welcome. Is Commander Spock with you?
SPOCK: This is Spock.
VULCAN [OC]: Standby to activate your central viewer, please.
(Nurse Chapel enters.)
CHAPEL: Doctor, what's going on?
(The viewscreen lights up with the image of a very beautiful woman.)
T'PRING [on viewscreen]: Spock, it is I.
SPOCK: T'Pring, parted from me and never parted, never and always touching and touched. We meet at the appointed place.
T'PRING [on viewscreen]: Spock, parted from me and never parted, never and always touching and touched. I await you.
UHURA: She's lovely, Mister Spock. Who is she?
SPOCK: She is T'Pring. My wife.
While not indicated in dialog, Chapel reacts like this is a surprise to her, too.
It's clear from TOS Chapel never had as close a relationship with Spock that we see depicted in SNW. She had an unrequited love that had never been acted upon.
Don't believe Uhura has met her on SNW. Rewatching so will see if I remember correctly.
She definitely meets Chapel.
Hopefully we have plenty more seasons of SNW to come. We've not seen the last of T'Pring.
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