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Most of the US Navy is designed to operate in Deep Blue Waters and aren't limited to the coast line.
But most starships don't in Trek. They usually employ navigational deflectors to push such things out of their way, especially at velocities approaching lightspeed. They have to actively collect those gases.
The magnetic field generator/collector [part of the Bussard system] is a compact set of six coils designed to cast a magnetic "net" ahead of the starship and pull in the charged particles toward the intake grills. ... At sublight velocities, the coils sweep forward normally. At warp velocities, however, the coil operation is reversed to slow down the incoming matter. This system works in close connection with the main navigational deflector. In normal operation, of course, the job of the deflector is to prevent any interstellar material from contacting the ship. Small field "holes" are manipulated by the deflector and MFG/C to permit usable amounts of rarified gas through.
The fact is that some starships may lose fuel quicker than expected--either during combat or some other crisis, The Bussard collectors are for emergency situations when your fuel supply is either depleted suddenly or when its questionable you have enough fuel to get back to base. Sometimes it could just be a case of getting enough to top off the gas tank just to play it safe.
True, we all know how often those "Emergency Situations" seem to crop up in the world of Star Trek.
That's why I see most StarShips having Bussard Collectors to augment their fuel supplies.
The Borg are the only species that I've seen that doesn't have a obvious form of Bussard Collector.
But they also don't have obvious forms of any hardware, yet still are able to do everything that StarFleet can do and more.
Depends on how far the journey is, If your car is almost at E, but you can siphon off a little bit of gas from someone, it might be enough for you to reach the nearest gas station. It's no different for a starship in distress. Even a small bit of fuel might be enough to reach the nearest starbase. It might mean the difference between saving your ship or having to abandon it.
Think about Bussard Collectors as a PHEV Vehicle having Solar Panels mounted on the flat parts of your cars roof to augment the tiny battery that it has. It's not meant to replace the Battery, ICE, or Regenerative Braking. It's a augment to extend the over-all range of the vehicle over time. It'll never replace the main systems, but it will alleviate the energy consumption requirements over time.
Jason from Engineering Explained that in a SoCal like environment, that there is enough Natural Sun that a standard Roof-area of a Toyota Corolla can gather over the course of a year to augment a SIGNIFICANT chunk of a PHEV's annual travel range via gradual energy collection by sitting in the sun.
If properly designed using the latest Maxeon Panels from Sun Power (The same maunfacturer that NASA uses) that are 22.X% efficient for the flat roof area of a Corolla like vehicle, you could easily cover ≥ 10k mi of range that the average driver needs in a year. That's not enough for the TOTAL drivers annual range, but it's a HUGE percentage of the estimated 13.5k mi of driving that the annual american uses.
The principle is similar with the Bussard Collectors, it gradually augments the Hydrogen/Deuterium & Local manufacturing of Anti-Deuterium. It'll never fully replace the MASSIVE Anti-Matter manufacturing in a local space station that every member of the UFP must participate in by creating local factories near their Star Systems core Stars that power the Anti-Matter processing factories to power the UFP's Ginormous resource based economy.
Hydrogen is one of the most commonly found gases in the Universe. At impulse power, the collectors can gather a decent amount of hydrogen just cruising through what would appear to be otherwise empty space. At warp speed, considerably greater amounts can be gathered. Finding a nebula or some other celestial body with a high concentration of hydrogen would just be the most ideal situation, one to be taken if the opportunity presents itself. In most disaster cases, that won't be an option.
The most abundant localized source would probably be in the Atmosphere of a M-class planet or it's Oceans.
Just taking a short dip into the planet and lingering for minutes to hours should be enough to replenish the Hydrogen Reserves. The local Oceans should provide enough Water for seperation via Electrolysis into it's constituation base elements. of Hydrogen & Oxygen + any excess other elements that we might need.
Which is why the Enterprise-J still has collectors. Maybe one day future starships won't need them anymore and can generate their own fuel internally (whatever that fuel might be), but they may not be there yet in the 26th-Century...
I think that as a fundamental portion of Space Travel, you'll never get rid of the Bussard Collector function, the advantages to in-space / situation Hydrogen replenishment is too good.
Any advanced species will determine that Hydrogen is too useful since it's the most abundant element in the universe and come to the same conclusion to use it as a primary or secondary fuel source.
It's not a good analogy. A starship can wind up in a situation where its fuel supply can be depleted and there's the possibility it could be stranded far from the nearest safe port.
That simply explains how they work, it says nothing about it being standard procedure. Indeed, if a starship had adequate fuel, it wouldn't need to do so except if the captain wants insurance.
True, we all know how often those "Emergency Situations" seem to crop up in the world of Star Trek.
That's why I see most StarShips having Bussard Collectors to augment their fuel supplies.
And that's really all it is. I do think, however, that for most ships, it is reserved mainly for emergency situations and is not something that's done routinely. It could be that most captains hope to never need to employ the collectors, but are glad to have them there should the need arise.
The Borg are the only species that I've seen that doesn't have a obvious form of Bussard Collector.
But they also don't have obvious forms of any hardware, yet still are able to do everything that StarFleet can do and more.
Including go to warp without warp nacelles, but that's just different technologies and possibly different approaches at play. Maybe Borg cubes refuel by assimilating/consuming other things and converting it into something they can use.
I think that as a fundamental portion of Space Travel, you'll never get rid of the Bussard Collector function, the advantages to in-space / situation Hydrogen replenishment is too good.
Any advanced species will determine that Hydrogen is too useful since it's the most abundant element in the universe and come to the same conclusion to use it as a primary or secondary fuel source.
I'm looking at 32nd-Century starships. It looks like some have collectors and others don't, and the ones that do are not that well defined, truth be told. It suggests that some designs at this point in time don't need collectors and have other means to augment their fuel supply.
It's not a good analogy. A starship can wind up in a situation where its fuel supply can be depleted and there's the possibility it could be stranded far from the nearest safe port.
It's worse off for any IRL US Naval Ship, they could end up stranded some-where far from home, w/o resupply and no way to manufacture or collect their own fuel.
At least with a standard Starship, they can collect hydrogen for fuel to manufacture or upgrade hydrogen -> deuterium & make some Anti-Matter.
That simply explains how they work, it says nothing about it being standard procedure. Indeed, if a starship had adequate fuel, it wouldn't need to do so except if the captain wants insurance.
To gurantee that the Captain has "Adequate Fuel" when he needs it; IMO, StarFleet would have it running 24/7/365 so that the rate of Fuel Depletion would be far less since they would be collecting all the time. Ergo the amount of energy they remove from their main fuel supply would be far less then they would be if they weren't collecting it on the go. It's better to be preventative then to be reactionary and need to collect a massive amount of fuel once you're in the low energy state.
Remember the old adage of: “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”
And that's really all it is. I do think, however, that for most ships, it is reserved mainly for emergency situations and is not something that's done routinely. It could be that most captains hope to never need to employ the collectors, but are glad to have them there should the need arise.
If it was only for emergency situations, it would be like the RAT (Ram Air Turbine) on aircraft where they only deploy it as needed. There's literally no logical reason to leave it exposed all the time. They would pop it out as needed for emergency.
That's why I think they are running the Bussard Collectors 24/7/365 as standard operation, to minimize energy consumption of fuel reserves as they travel.
Including go to warp without warp nacelles, but that's just different technologies and possibly different approaches at play. Maybe Borg cubes refuel by assimilating/consuming other things and converting it into something they can use.
That sounds like an energy inefficient way of refueling. You spend alot of energy assimilating / consuming. That requires alot of energy to travel, fight, conquer, & assimilate. And there's no gurantee that you'll succeed.
I'm looking at 32nd-Century starships. It looks like some have collectors and others don't, and the ones that do are not that well defined, truth be told. It suggests that some designs at this point in time don't need collectors and have other means to augment their fuel supply.
Or they moved their Bussard Collectors into non standard locations or have it shaped as something else.
It's like how USS Prodigy redefined how the Deflector Dish could be shaped.
Or how in the 32nd Century, the USS Discovery-A looks like it moved from a traditional Radar Deflector Dish to a AESA style Deflector Dish.
Modern AESA style Deflectors are largely protected by flat radar transparent covering that protects the sensitive AESA Radar components from the environment.
32nd Century design seems to have largely moved beyond the need for a deflector dish. If anything, the Disco-A may have removed it entirely in favor of whatever tech has replaced the classic dish, and the ship has a simple flat panel to cover over the empty space it left. Said empty space being re-tasked to the expanded turbolift funhouse.
32nd Century design seems to have largely moved beyond the need for a deflector dish. If anything, the Disco-A may have removed it entirely in favor of whatever tech has replaced the classic dish, and the ship has a simple flat panel to cover over the empty space it left. Said empty space being re-tasked to the expanded turbolift funhouse.
It's worse off for any IRL US Naval Ship, they could end up stranded some-where far from home, w/o resupply and no way to manufacture or collect their own fuel.
At least with a standard Starship, they can collect hydrogen for fuel to manufacture or upgrade hydrogen -> deuterium & make some Anti-Matter.
To gurantee that the Captain has "Adequate Fuel" when he needs it; IMO, StarFleet would have it running 24/7/365 so that the rate of Fuel Depletion would be far less since they would be collecting all the time. Ergo the amount of energy they remove from their main fuel supply would be far less then they would be if they weren't collecting it on the go. It's better to be preventative then to be reactionary and need to collect a massive amount of fuel once you're in the low energy state.
Remember the old adage of: “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”
That's not how most of Starfleet operates. Contrary to popular belief, most starships aren't sent into extended voyages away from Federation space for years at a time. With a new notable exceptions, most ships operate at warp speed within range of a Federation starbase, colony, or member world. In TOS, TNG, and now SNW, the Enterprise routinely stopped at a starbase where the ship likely resupplied, refueled, and rotated crewmembers before heading back out again. A few ships were out in the wilderness by themselves like the Voyager (by accident) and the Olympia (on an eight-year exploration mission), but I would argue that's not how it is for most ships. The Bussard collectors for most starships are there simply as a backup system in the case of an emergency. Otherwise, they'd refuel at scheduled starbase layovers.
If it was only for emergency situations, it would be like the RAT (Ram Air Turbine) on aircraft where they only deploy it as needed. There's literally no logical reason to leave it exposed all the time. They would pop it out as needed for emergency.
That's why I think they are running the Bussard Collectors 24/7/365 as standard operation, to minimize energy consumption of fuel reserves as they travel.
That sounds like an energy inefficient way of refueling. You spend alot of energy assimilating / consuming. That requires alot of energy to travel, fight, conquer, & assimilate. And there's no gurantee that you'll succeed.
Or maybe technology has progressed by then that some ships can generate their own deuterium or whatever fuel they're using. Other designs may not utilize collectors as we know them.
That's not how most of Starfleet operates. Contrary to popular belief, most starships aren't sent into extended voyages away from Federation space for years at a time. With a new notable exceptions, most ships operate at warp speed within range of a Federation starbase, colony, or member world. In TOS, TNG, and now SNW, the Enterprise routinely stopped at a starbase where the ship likely resupplied, refueled, and rotated crewmembers before heading back out again. A few ships were out in the wilderness by themselves like the Voyager (by accident) and the Olympia (on an eight-year exploration mission), but I would argue that's not how it is for most ships. The Bussard collectors for most starships are there simply as a backup system in the case of an emergency. Otherwise, they'd refuel at scheduled starbase layovers.
You'd still refuel at StarBase for other provisions besides energy.
Remember Food Replicators use base raw matter stocks to assemble into final matter.
Same with Medical Supplies where many need to be synthesized or manufactured over time.
Sick Bay isn't designed for massive scale medicine manufacturing, only small scale stuff.
There are a whole host of supplies that aren't energy that needs to be replenished.
Or maybe technology has progressed by then that some ships can generate their own deuterium or whatever fuel they're using. Other designs may not utilize collectors as we know them.
You still need to gather Hydrogen to modify into Deuterium, that requires a Gas/Particle Collector of some sort.
If it's not a Bussard Collector, it could be some other form of collector; either way, there needs to be something there to collect interstellar gases.
You'd still refuel at StarBase for other provisions besides energy.
Remember Food Replicators use base raw matter stocks to assemble into final matter.
Same with Medical Supplies where many need to be synthesized or manufactured over time.
Sick Bay isn't designed for massive scale medicine manufacturing, only small scale stuff.
There are a whole host of supplies that aren't energy that needs to be replenished.
You think that Starfleet doesn't take any of that into account as part of normal starship operations? I would wager that there even protocols in place, like a reduced power mode, that go into effect in the event that the ship's fuel supply is compromised.
It sounds more logical than only running it when you're in a bad situation and need to collect energy.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Yeah, because a ship would spend more time collecting fuel than carrying out its missions.
You still need to gather Hydrogen to modify into Deuterium, that requires a Gas/Particle Collector of some sort.
If it's not a Bussard Collector, it could be some other form of collector; either way, there needs to be something there to collect interstellar gases.
You think that Starfleet doesn't take any of that into account as part of normal starship operations? I would wager that there even protocols in place, like a reduced power mode, that go into effect in the event that the ship's fuel supply is compromised.
I would hope that everybody would try to be as "Energy Efficient" and as "Ecologically Minded" of their resource usage in the future. Any Energy Conservation during a crisis is obvious.
Yeah, because a ship would spend more time collecting fuel than carrying out its missions.
The Bussard Collectors are fully automated, you don't have to do anything special.
The computers take care of it automatically without user intervention.
You just go about your normal activities as you travel from place to place.
I'm not arguing against that, but it may be that the system of doing so may have changed or be unrecognizable to that currently in use.
Mobile StarBase to represent the UFP Flag and do massive Exploratory missions on scales that weren't available before.
Imagine going to a recently discovered M-class planet and categorzing EVERY single detail about it's biomes.
After the Enterprise-J deploys a network of Satellites with Transporter & Communications Relays, the Enterprise-J would sit up high in GeoStationary Orbit and deploy Thousands of Away Teams to survey Thousands of spots on the planet at the same time covering every aspect of Scientific Research you can think of.
If there is a branch of Science you can think of, you can have a away team member that specializes in it.
Bring back Samples, study every little detail.
I loved the Enterprise-J design from the first minute.
Of course it looks disproportionate and even crazy - this ship has 150 years of evolution since the time of USS Voyager under the hood! Bear in mind how crazy already the quantum-slipstream drive Dauntless-A looked compared to contemporary designs.
An issue I see with fan designs for Enterprises F to G on Bridge Commander etc. is that they just look like super-sized TNG-era ships. Different shape but same proportions and hull details. Like tech stopped evolving. They are beautiful but they aren't exotically futuristic.
I have the Eaglemoss models, I fly the ship in STO (USS Excalibur NCC-1664-J). I like to think that the Enterprise-J entered service in the mid-26th century and served for over 100 years, becoming the longest-serving and largest Federation ship named USS Enterprise in history. A century-long golden age between eras of turmoil.
With DSC introducing 31st/32nd century Starfleet designs to canon - we already had 31st century ships from Star Trek Online - I see a credible lineage from the 24th sleek tech, to 26th century grand tech, to 31st century indistinguishable from magic Starships.
By the 32nd century, the Universe class is a 600 year old relic! And I love how it fills that spot of being a futuristic vessel compared to the 2370s but believably old tech in the 3190s.
Well, instead of going "What were they thinking?" I always look at art as why they might enjoy doing that. And to me its always been a striking visual that stands out in the episode. Whether or not it's practical is not the consideration as that is not necessarily the approach of the artist.
No, I don't find it fun. But I think the artists are taking a specific approach.
The Bussard Collectors are fully automated, you don't have to do anything special.
The computers take care of it automatically without user intervention.
You just go about your normal activities as you travel from place to place.
I would wager that even by the 26th-Century there is still a lot of our own Galaxy yet to explore. Sure, there have been ships to all four quadrants, but there could be almost a thousand billion unvisited stars out there in the Milky Way and potentially many more unknown worlds, so I think our Galaxy isn't something that can be fully explored in just the next century or so. That still wouldn't preclude the Enterprise-J as being a long-range deep-space explorer. Maybe she's also intended to serve as a mobile Federation starbase and embassy too...
We know some of the planets USS Voyager visited did not get a Federation visit for centuries based on the records found by the backup EMH left behind in the Delta Quadrant.
We know some of the planets USS Voyager visited did not get a Federation visit for centuries based on the records found by the backup EMH left behind in the Delta Quadrant.
That always confounded me. Wouldn’t there be historic reenactment tours by Starfleet and Federation tourists in the centuries after Voyager? Perhaps Valka was not warp-capable and therefore avoided by the Federation on purpose.
We know some of the planets USS Voyager visited did not get a Federation visit for centuries based on the records found by the backup EMH left behind in the Delta Quadrant.
That always confounded me. Wouldn’t there be historic reenactment tours by Starfleet and Federation tourists in the centuries after Voyager? Perhaps Valka was not warp-capable and therefore avoided by the Federation on purpose.
While I'm sure there are accounts of every world and starfaring civilization the Voyager encountered in the Delta Quadrant, I think only the more notable contacts during her journey became common knowledge (the initial ones with the Ocampa and the Kazon, Species 8472, the Hirogen, and the Talaxians). The Voyager made nearly 150 known first contacts, it would be quite an exhibit to document them all, IMO.
