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DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

thribs said:
It’s funny that Ezra was announced to be the Flash around the same time Grant Gustin was (which annoyed Steve Amell) and Gustin has finished his tenure before Ezra has had his own movie out.
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You mean "their own movie."

It always seemed like The Flash was the exception to WB's preference to avoid having two competing live-action versions of the same superhero at the same time (i.e. the reason we've had so many Batman Minus Batman shows), because the show was such a hit that it got grandfathered in when WB went ahead with the Flash movie. But now I guess we'll never know. It is curious, though, how the timing works out, with the show ending just shortly before the movie is released.
 
Grendelsbayne said:
No, I'm not. That's the whole point. Film-making is a fundamentally collaborative activity. Therefore one person actually can ruin it for everyone else. It makes no difference whether that happens because of a situation like the one with Miller or because someone on the movie just did their job poorly. Either way, there is no reason to expect anyone to ignore whatever they dislike about the situation, trailers, story description, etc and go see the movie anyway 'to support all the other people who didn't cause the problem'. None of these people are entitled to success without regard for the whole package of everything going on with a movie, and that includes whether the lead actor is a creep people don't want to see and the behavior of the studio relative to said creep. That has nothing to do with 'punishing' innocent people for Miller's actions.

And this repeated, vaguely defined indignation about 'great harm' being done to 'lots of other people' is completely baseless. Whether some want to admit it or not, the vast majority of people who worked on this movie already got paid everything they were ever going to get paid for their work on The Flash. Of those who haven't, the clear majority either don't desperately need the money or are actively part of the problem, anyway. And whether some want to admit it or not, there is no logical scenario in which the failure of this movie can possibly have any serious career consequences for anyone other than Miller and (maybe, hopefully) some of the producers and executives who supported Miller.

The only thing that could seriously be harmed across large numbers of people here is their professional pride, and I'm sorry but nobody's pride is more important than the larger issue at stake in this situation.



As I've said here before, I absolutely do not believe a word of Miller's 'rehabilitation'. If this were all above board, Miller wouldn't have to have been forced along by WB every step of the way and we wouldn't still be waiting for either Miller *or* WB to even so much as acknowledge the severity of what Miller actually did. Not to mention maybe, y'know, in any way apologize to Miller's actual victims.

The only thing this 'rehabilitation' actually consists of is Miller apologizing for 'upsetting people' and 'endangering the success of The Flash', WB claiming we'd all understand Miller as soon as we heard their side of the story (which was subsequently never provided), and a bunch of obviously manipulated public soundbites about how likeable Miller is and how sad their issues have been. It's a blatant PR tactic, not a genuine turnaround.
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I want to apologize for my post that set this conversation off, I realize now that this a person thing, and there was no way my post was going to change your position.

TREK_GOD_1 said:
True, and amidst the selective "indignation", as of this date, no one supporting that idea has provided evidence of "lots of other people" in a film's production having their careers harmed by an under-performing film (no matter the cause). Yesterday, I provided the example of a box-office disaster in Bros, yet its director/co-producer, lead actor/writer or anyone else have not witnessed their careers take a hit because of that colossal flop. That was not myth, but a fact.



Again--true. Most of a film's production crew are not waiting to be paid at some time in the future (e.g., getting profit percentage points), but a fixed payment, so no matter how a film performs, most have already received payment. The Flash's production crew have moved on to other jobs and are not living and dying by that one job in their career rear-view mirror.



More than likely at this point.
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Again I apologize for the first post that set off this conversation.
Christopher said:
I don't see that. Look at DC editor Julius Schwartz, who was a terrible sexual harasser and abuser for decades. Schwartz was a pivotal figure behind the creation of the entire Silver and Bronze Age DC Universe. Does that mean you're agreeing with sexual harassment by reading or watching DC material? I don't believe that. The work is a separate thing from its creators. The same individual can be responsible for both good and bad things in the same life, and embracing the good does not endorse the bad. I think that denying the good things someone did because of the bad just lets the bad win.

We don't blame children for the sins of their parents. Artistic creations are brainchildren. The work is its own thing, and it doesn't automatically carry the taint of its creator's actions -- not unless the creator specifically uses it to advocate their toxic ideas. Even then, it can be redeemed. H.P. Lovecraft was horrifically racist, and his racism pervades his writing, but there are people of color today -- people that Lovecraft would have seen as subhuman monstrosities and wanted to exterminate -- who are fans of his work and have written tales with his concepts that confront and counteract the racism that tainted them (like the TV series Lovecraft Country, though that was based on a novel by a white author). Rather than just avoiding the problematical work, they engage with it and transform it, using its good ideas to denounce its bad ideas. Engagement is not blind acceptance.
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OK, you do bring up a fair point, it's kind of frustrating that there are so many great works of art that were created by horrible people.
 
JD said:
OK, you do bring up a fair point, it's kind of frustrating that there are so many great works of art that were created by horrible people.
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Interesting you should say that today, when Twitter is blowing up about Maureen Ryan's expose of the toxic work environment on Lost (part of a book about the need for reform more generally in Hollywood): https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/05/lost-tv-show-culture/amp

Former Lost producer Javier Grillo-Marxuach's addendum to that article is also worth reading: http://okbjgm.weebly.com/uploads/3/1/5/0/31506003/final_statement.pdf

They make the point that society tends to excuse awful or abusive behavior in brilliant artists, because if something succeeds in spite of their toxicity, it can be perceived that the toxicity is itself part of the recipe for success.
 
I literally just read IGN's story about that, it's horrifying to think stuff like that was going on behind the scenes.
 
kirk55555 said:
I don't know if that's quite the right interpretation, or at least I don't think so. To me, its a very corporate non-commital thing. He says "If a sequel happens", and that's far from guaranteed. Even another Flash movie wouldn't necessarily be a direct sequel to this one. Plus, if Miller is still in treatment WB (from what I understand) can't directly fire him or imply he's out of the job until the treatment is complete.

So with that in mind what this guy has said, to me, reads like a PR safe comment that doesn't really say anything when you think about it.
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I did add those caveats at the end of my post
 
Nerys Myk said:
I’ll pretend to know who that is. :lol:
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JD said:
Glad to know I'm not the only one isn't familiar with him.
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Superman is an orphan from a dead planet, Krypton, who’s sent to Earth by his parents minutes before their planet explodes. He’s adopted by farmers in Kansas and grows up to find the Earth’s sun and his alien nature give him amazing powers.
 
The Knappos said:
Superman is an orphan from a dead planet, Krypton, who’s sent to Earth by his parents minutes before their planet explodes. He’s adopted by farmers in Kansas and grows up to find the Earth’s sun and his alien nature give him amazing powers.
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Sounds ridiculous. That will never work!
 
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