"Scorpion": Tuvok's emphatic explanation?

[Ragitsu]

Good morning!

In "Scorpion, Part 1", just after the turning point in the relationship between Voyager and the Borg, there is a scene where Janeway and Tuvok are forced to receive neutral transceivers; before a mental link can be established, Voyager's chief of security says the following ->

BORG [OC]: Your primitive communication is inefficient.
TUVOK: On the contrary. We work better with our individuality intact. Surely, we've proven that to you by now.

He is concerned for his Captain...his friend (and Voyager, by extension, in the event he is compromised and becomes a danger to those he had sworn to defend). However, I can easily see a Vulcan arguing - logically, naturally - in favor of a hive-mind; not only are the Vulcans generally telepathic to varying degrees, but they are quite fond of establishing mind melds for manifold reasons. What are your thoughts on where Vulcans tend to sit on the spectrum between the individual and the collective?

 

[Oddish]

Vulcans are naturally private people, I think. Yes, they use mind-melds, but the contact that occurs is on their terms. I don't think a Vulcan would enjoy having his mind laid bare before an entire collective of beings they didn't know.

 

[somebuddyX]

He melded with Suder and that went off perfectly. No reason he wouldn't want to do that again.

 

[Ragitsu]

I don't think a Vulcan would enjoy having his mind laid bare before an entire collective of beings they didn't know.

Hm...this could also be a matter of courtesy; when it comes to the Vulcans, they've done a bang-up job compartmentalizing rationality (i.e., the Superego) from impulse (i.e., the Id). Depending on how a particular form of telepathy works, it may be impossible or "merely" extremely difficult for an external intelligence to keep away from a Vulcan's mercurial center.

He melded with Suder and that went off perfectly. No reason he wouldn't want to do that again.

To be fair, it's not as if he swears off melding past the events of "Meld"; we later see him join minds during "Flashback".

 

[Sumire]

Isn’t it at least implied, if not outright stated, that it is the height of impropriety to touch a Vulcan due to touch heightening their telepathy? That certainly doesn’t sound like a people desirous of having their every thought shared with a galaxy-spanning collective. It was only about a score more than 200 years ago that they viewed melding as devient behavior and Pa'nar syndrome was seen as an acceptable deterrent from indulging in something so ill-advised. As 200 years is a conceivable lifespan for a Vulcan, I can well imagine that it would still color some perceptions.

 

[Ragitsu]

Granted, the Borg aren't the best example of an ideal collective . Surely there are other alien species with linked minds that only accept willing participants?

 

[Summer Solstice]

I agree with Sumire, who put it more eloquently than I could. I think Vulcans are a bit terrified of telepathy, although they wouldn't want to admit that.

In "Flashback" Tuvok melds with Janeway and they already knew each other pretty well.

The Betazoids seem to like being telepathic.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I agree with Sumire, who put it more eloquently than I could. I think Vulcans are a bit terrified of telepathy, although they wouldn't want to admit that.

In "Flashback" Tuvok melds with Janeway and they already knew each other pretty well.

The Betazoids seem to like being telepathic.

Back to Suder?

I assume he loved punching telepaths in the throat, but that's not the same.

 

[somebuddyX]

To be fair, it's not as if he swears off melding past the events of "Meld"; we later see him join minds during "Flashback".

I think I was trying to say something like "Meld" shows why Vulcans shouldn't do melds with everybody because you might get people like Suder messing everyone up, but I went too smartass. When I think Vulcan hive mind I think of that place in "Unity" where they put their will over everyone or something and because they can go apeshit when they lose control that could wreck everyone telepathically. On the other hand the Betazoids seem to work okay, so...

 

[Summer Solstice]

Back to Suder?

I assume he loved punching telepaths in the throat, but that's not the same.

I think Suder wasn't a typical Betazoid.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I think Suder wasn't a typical Betazoid.

He was a gimp.

Telepathically dormant.

He would have been abused as a child by children and then condescended to like a cripple as an adult by adults.

His anger issues were almost justified.

Although imagine how clever he must have been to be a successful serial killer, on a planet of telepaths. Although acting without thinking is just a little trick, that gets most people into a lot of trouble, but hiding bodies and his red memories, that showed real talent.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I think I was trying to say something like "Meld" shows why Vulcans shouldn't do melds with everybody because you might get people like Suder messing everyone up, but I went too smartass. When I think Vulcan hive mind I think of that place in "Unity" where they put their will over everyone or something and because they can go apeshit when they lose control that could wreck everyone telepathically. On the other hand the Betazoids seem to work okay, so...

Remind me what the down side to clearing Suder's baggage and teaching him logic? The law of Betazed saw him hurting, and they are much stronger telepaths, and they could have have fixed him him before he started becoming an unsavory element... Which in itself is murder? Death of personality. On Earth today, we could lobotomize anyone with anger issues or all criminals. Make them compliant and productive.

 

[DonIago]

Didn't Tuvok meld with Janeway for medical reasons? Specifically his medical reasons?

But also, yes, they had a preexisting relationship.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Didn't Tuvok meld with Janeway for medical reasons? Specifically his medical reasons?

But also, yes, they had a preexisting relationship.

He gave her space herpes.

 

[Ragitsu]

"Death of the personality" is still death...

 

[Phaser Two]

To be fair, it's not as if he swears off melding past the events of "Meld"; we later see him join minds during "Flashback".

Right - and "Infinite Regress" too. And doesn't he give Noss a meld send-off in "Gravity"?

 

[Ragitsu]

Right - and "Infinite Regress" too. And doesn't he give Noss a meld send-off in "Gravity"?

Absolutely correct! "Random Thoughts" (Season 4) and "Repression" (Season 7) also count.

 

[Guy Gardener]

"Death of the personality" is still death...

Death of personality was just a hypothetical, which I implied was bad.

Tuvok did not kill his "personality" with a telepathic knife, Tuvok taught logic, a series of tools that helped him process his unquiet thoughts.

Suder embraced logic because it felt good.

Being the man who he used to be, felt bad.

Although killing still felt awesome.

Suder decided that feeling a little bit good all the time was better than feeling like shit unless he was sticking a knife deep inside no one special in particular.

Tuvok could have substituted the orgasmic thrill of murder with standing on a lego brick in your bare feet, or something equally dissatisfying, but he didn't, therefore Suder's original personality was alive and intact.