Why do they dismantle or destroy old Star Trek bridges?

[Greg Cox]

I suspecting we're all starting to repeat ourselves at this point, but it does seems as though we're falling over backwards to find some way, any way, to solve a "problem" that doesn't exist.

If the sets can always be rebuilt as needed, why does it matter if they're destroyed?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I suspecting we're all starting to repeat ourselves at this point, but it does seems as though we're falling over backwards to find some way, any way, to solve a "problem" that doesn't exist.

If the sets can always be rebuilt as needed, why does it matter if they're destroyed?

Excellent point. I think some people are forgetting that the sets are not the final product. The movie or the television series is the final product. The sets are just a temporary thing they create to get them there. They were never meant to stand for the ages.

 

[Greg Cox]

Exactly. The actual episodes or movies are the finished works of art that ought to be preserved. The sets are like the easel a painter uses to prop up their canvas while they work; it's the Mona Lisa that's hanging in the Louvre, not da Vinci's easel and paintbrushes -- or the stool his model was sitting on.

 

[UssGlenn]

Exactly. The actual episodes or movies are the finished works of art that ought to be preserved. The sets are like the easel a painter uses to prop up their canvas while they work; it's the Mona Lisa that's hanging in the Louvre, not da Vinci's easel and paintbrushes -- or the stool his model was sitting on.

That's because the Louvre is an art museum. There's more than one kind. If it was a History museum the easel and paintbrushes would be appropriate. The Enterprise isn't in the Smithsonian because its a work of art, its there as a historical artifact. Same goes for the surviving TOS Captain's chair and helm Console in Seattle.

 

[fireproof78]

So, someone should start the Star Trek Historical Preservation society.

 

[Greg Cox]

I confess: one of the things I miss now that everything is done electronically is being able to toss out all my old drafts and notes and page proofs once a book finally sees print. It was always very satisfying to heave all those heaping bundles of paper into the trash once a book was well and truly finished. Clearing out the old to make room for the next project.

 

[publiusr]

We need rituals I think…archivists have a devil of a time trying to do research..a lot of old sites just don’t exist anymore.

 

[Greg Cox]

That's because the Louvre is an art museum. There's more than one kind. If it was a History museum the easel and paintbrushes would be appropriate. The Enterprise isn't in the Smithsonian because its a work of art, its there as a historical artifact. Same goes for the surviving TOS Captain's chair and helm Console in Seattle.

Good point. But those are a few isolated artifacts. Folks on this thread have been arguing that no STAR TREK sets should ever be destroyed until every available option has been explored to preserve them.

 

[Finn]

That's because the Louvre is an art museum. There's more than one kind. If it was a History museum the easel and paintbrushes would be appropriate. The Enterprise isn't in the Smithsonian because its a work of art, its there as a historical artifact. Same goes for the surviving TOS Captain's chair and helm Console in Seattle.

It has been a while, but from what I can recall reading the story, it seems the TOS Enterprise model ended up in the gift shop, in a..."What the hell, why not?" decision, rather than a desire to preserve a historical artifact like with Mona Lisa or the pillow Lincoln bled onto that night at the hotel across the street from Ford theater.

 

[Sci]

Illegal? Nonsense. Stupid? Maybe. Talk to say the Disney archives if you want to validate saving items is not illegal.

That's not what I said.

 

[UssGlenn]

It has been a while, but from what I can recall reading the story, it seems the TOS Enterprise model ended up in the gift shop, in a..."What the hell, why not?" decision, rather than a desire to preserve a historical artifact like with Mona Lisa or the pillow Lincoln bled onto that night at the hotel across the street from Ford theater.

quick and dirty history of the Enterprise and the Smithsonian: Paramount kept the model in storage until 1974, when they donated it to the Smithsonian. It immediately went into a temporary exhibit called "Life in the Universe". After that was displayed various places and had a couple minor restorations until 2000. That was when it had the first big restoration (the one everyone says they overdid and screwed up). They had a custom case built for it in the gift shop. It stayed there until 2014 when it was removed for 2 years of meticulous conservation and restoration. Then it went on display in a prominent place of honor in the Milestones of Flight Gallery at the Air and Space Museum, where it is today.

Basically as it got older, the more important it became, moving from "Fonzie's Jacket" level to being displayed next to the Spirit of St. Louis.

But to get back to the original topic, There just isn't space anywhere to keep everything. All the Captain's chairs are probably out there somewhere in private hands, but that's the best you can expect for the bridges.

 

[Jason_Adank]

Back in '06, when Paramount auctioned off all the vfx models and miniatures (Christie's Auction) from the start trek franchise, Leonard Nimoy, in a promotional video, stated point blank they were doing it because of the storage costs... And that was just a bunch of starship models. Nevermind full blown interior sets.

On that point, what really boggles my mind, is that Paramount didnt have the foresight to consider scanning all the miniatures before selling them off. I was working at WetaFX at the time - 3D scanners were not uncommon in vfx houses at the time. Data storage is cheap compared to square footage. As a result, anytime they wanted to reshow one of those old ships/stations/models, they had to be recreated... from less than stellar reference... and in a hurry. They even had to reach out to the fan community to help rebuild these models accurately.

 

[fireproof78]

On that point, what really boggles my mind, is that Paramount didnt have the foresight to consider scanning all the miniatures before selling them off. I was working at WetaFX at the time - 3D scanners were not uncommon in vfx houses at the time. Data storage is cheap compared to square footage. As a result, anytime they wanted to reshow one of those old ships/stations/models, they had to be recreated... from less than stellar reference... and in a hurry. They even had to reach out to the fan community to help rebuild these models accurately.

Time is money, unfortunately, which means they rushed to get them auctioned off and free up space. Very few people plan ahead on such things, whether they will be used or not.

 

[Jayson1]

I suspecting we're all starting to repeat ourselves at this point, but it does seems as though we're falling over backwards to find some way, any way, to solve a "problem" that doesn't exist.

If the sets can always be rebuilt as needed, why does it matter if they're destroyed?

From a collectors point of view I think the idea is you get to own something that you and billions of people saw growing up on TV. It's why we don't throw the Mona Lisa in the trash just because we have copies. Why a duplicate that looks the same is nice, the idea of having the actual original is extra special.

 

[fireproof78]

From a collectors point of view I think the idea is you get to own something that you and billions of people saw growing up on TV. It's why we don't throw the Mona Lisa in the trash just because we have copies. Why a duplicate that looks the same is nice, the idea of having the actual original is extra special.

Even if it is special no one has answered the question of time and money. Who is footing the bill? So far it pretty much has pushed the onus on the production companies to give them away for free, while still storing them waiting for someone to pick them up.

 

[jackoverfull]

Back in '06, when Paramount auctioned off all the vfx models and miniatures (Christie's Auction) from the start trek franchise, Leonard Nimoy, in a promotional video, stated point blank they were doing it because of the storage costs... And that was just a bunch of starship models. Nevermind full blown interior sets.

And it made perfect sense: while they certainly knew that the franchise would come back in some form, they also expected the new iteration wouldn’t try and replicate the feel of the Berman era. And of course the JJ-Trek and streaming trek came around and the art direction could hardly be more different. Only now, some 15 years later, there is any interest in replicating a bit of that old aesthetic.

that point, what really boggles my mind, is that Paramount didnt have the foresight to consider scanning all the miniatures before selling them off. I was working at WetaFX at the time - 3D scanners were not uncommon in vfx houses at the time. Data storage is cheap compared to square footage. As a result, anytime they wanted to reshow one of those old ships/stations/models, they had to be recreated... from less than stellar reference... and in a hurry. They even had to reach out to the fan community to help rebuild these models accurately.

Scanning stuff takes time, which is money. Consider that in the same period they didn’t have enough budget to redo the TOS VFXs believably for the remaster.

From a collectors point of view I think the idea is you get to own something that you and billions of people saw growing up on TV. It's why we don't throw the Mona Lisa in the trash just because we have copies. Why a duplicate that looks the same is nice, the idea of having the actual original is extra special.

the Mona Lisa is a small painting that attracts a huge amount of paying visitors every day, how many would pay to visit DS9’s ops set?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

From a collectors point of view I think the idea is you get to own something that you and billions of people saw growing up on TV. It's why we don't throw the Mona Lisa in the trash just because we have copies.

You still don't get it. The sets are not the Mona Lisa. The sets are a tool to make the final product. As Greg said, the sets are more like the easel the Mona Lisa was painted on.

 

[SJGardner]

Also, of course, nothing stops a studio from selling a set they won't use anymore to a self-identified good samaritan überfan with more money than common sense who would be even willing to dismantle it and transport it on their own budget. But then the question is: why should a studio be obligated to preserve the set for safekeeping just in case such a good samaritan emerges at some point?

 

[Greg Cox]

You still don't get it. The sets are not the Mona Lisa. The sets are a tool to make the final product. As Greg said, the sets are more like the easel the Mona Lisa was painted on.

Or maybe the typewriter they wrote a script on.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Or maybe the typewriter they wrote a script on.

Yeah. And unless it's Ian Fleming's gold-plated typewriter that he wrote the Bond books on...