Poll The TAS Redux That Might Have Been

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Really, it's more like how Saavik sometimes looks like Kirstie Alley and other times like Robin Curtis.

That’s different. Recasting is completely normal. Happens all the time. It doesn’t change the essence of the character.

April, OTOH, is a whole ‘nother thing. He can’t be both white and black. It’s one or the other. You have to pick one. And since SNW firmly established April as a black man (live action always takes precedence) then TAS must be wrong. And therefore - at least in this case - not canon.

Hell, even James R. Kirk can be explained. This can’t.

Edit: Don’t even mention James Bond. Not only is it just another example of recasting, but each new Bond is a reboot anyway (otherwise he’d be a hundred years old by now).

 

[Warped9]

April, OTOH, is a whole ‘nother thing. He can’t be both white and black.

He can be if he is from Cheron.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I admit I would like to see a SNW writer try to explain the change in April’s race. I dare them.

 

[Mytran]

And since SNW firmly established April as a black man

No, it just established that the April character was portrayed by a black actor. I don't think there was any reference to his race in the episodes themselves.

As you said, actors change - but the characters are intended to be the same.

 

[blssdwlf]

I admit I would like to see a SNW writer try to explain the change in April’s race. I dare them.

Akiva Goldsman has stated before that he'll break continuity so the simple explanation is that SNW's April is different that TAS' April in the same way that SNW Kirk, Uhura and other characters appear earlier and the ship's tech is different than what came before. I treat it as different stories and not the same continuity. YMMV.

He speaks of their approach again in the latest article here:
https://www.slashfilm.com/1285028/strange-new-worlds-star-trek-canon-guidelines-actual-rules/

EDIT:

Here's the first article that he discusses this approach:

https://www.metacritic.com/news/sta...2-finale-guest-star-canon-strange-new-worlds/

"Fans have really loved the consistency of canon over the course of the Star Trek franchise. I know that can be both a boon for story ideas and character development, and can also be kind of an anchor for storytellers in your position. So, how do you approach it now, especially given that you're bringing in some characters from Kirk's Enterprise and some that have allusions to characters such as Khan?

We love canon. We try very hard to adhere to it, and yet we probably won't destroy a really good story over it. We'll try to body English around it, but fundamentally the spirit of canon is, to us, more important than the letter of the law.

I know that sounds vaguely like an excuse. And in fairness, we really do try very hard to stick to it, but now and then we deviate. And we do it because we thought about it and we believe that we're better off attempting to rewrite canon, which I know sounds sacrilegious, but canon was an accident. When they made "The Cage," they weren't like, "And then we'll cut it into two parts and make it 'The Menagerie' and Star Trek backstory is born!" That was not the purpose. It's a lot of people like us and people who will come after us who will hopefully do their best to stick with what we did and then don't be slaves to it if it gets in their way. "​

 

[CorporalCaptain]

No, it just established that the April character was portrayed by a black actor. I don't think there was any reference to his race in the episodes themselves.

As you said, actors change - but the characters are intended to be the same.

Yep.

Hell, even James R. Kirk can be explained. This can’t.

In a universe in which Kirk can have himself surgically altered to pass as a Romulan, which is a different species, you're going to argue that that there no possible in-universe explanation for a change in physical appearance while staying within the same species? Please.

April, OTOH, is a whole ‘nother thing. He can’t be both white and black. It’s one or the other. You have to pick one.

No, you don't.

And let's not kid ourselves, in the U.S. race is often assigned, not chosen, and whether a person is considered black or white can depend upon who's doing the assigning.

But that's neither here nor there. @Mytran nailed it in one.

 

[Warped9]

Maybe Robert April is Antosian, the same people who taught Garth of Izar the ability of cellular metamorphosis—shape-shifting.

Yeah, it’s bs, but so is insisting whatever DSC/SNW does has any bearing whatsoever on TOS/TAS, particularly given the show runner openly admits ignoring continuity when they feel like it.

 

[Pauln6]

If it is felt that a real world explanation is required, then consider that Michael Jackson's skin grew lighter as he got older in the 20th century. There is quite a bit of obsession over skin colour going on in the media at the moment as well. From a psychological point of view, it is fascinating that many people have a red line over the skin colour of an actor when it comes to recasting.

I'm guilty of it myself - I have always been a fan of Naomi Harris so I was stoked to see her cast as Moneypenny but if Bond was cast as a black actor, would that be a step too far, given the background of the character is so well established?

Some people went nuts over Dr Who changing gender, so you would think they will be happy now that he is becoming a man again, but he's becoming a black man. I have no idea what the reaction will be, despite him being an alien with a canonical ability to change appearance. The actor did a bit of Shakespeare at the recent Coronation Concert and he looks really impressive though so I think he will win people over as long as the writing improves.

There is a lot of consternation over a mythical species of fish woman as well.

To summarise - suspension of disbelief should extend to recasting actors, even of different ethnicity where ethnicity is not integral to the character. They should, however put effort into maintaining consistent characterisation. My issue with Saavik's recasting was not the change of actress, it was the change of personality.

And obviously, Lt Kyle should be English.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

No, it just established that the April character was portrayed by a black actor.

What’s the diff?

 

[publiusr]

Which hasn't stopped some fans doing some impressive over-thinking of it!

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They should do TAS Enterprise as per the 3/4 view and the huge shuttlebay

 

[Metryq]

(live action always takes precedence

In the original Space Battleship Yamato anime from the '70s Mori Yuki was a medical professional, and a blonde. The live-action 2010 movie depicted her as a fighter pilot played by an Asian woman with typically dark hair. Obviously this wipes all the anime references and fandom because it was live-action.

In the anime, the Gamilons were blue-skinned humanoids in space Nazi uniforms. Why they wanted Earth, a planet 160,000 lightyears from the home world of their empire, so desperately is a bit of head-scratcher. Gamilas from the 2010 live-action movie were completely incorporeal. And it was not Earth they wanted... but that was a change worth making.

James P. Hogan's Realtime Interrupt was 90% of what The Matrix became in movie form—right down to a climactic scene where "Neo" flexes his programmer's muscles and alters the physical constants of the simulated world around him. Realtime did not have any "coppertop" silliness about using humans as a power source, but since The Matrix was live-action, it must take precedence over the more credible scenario in Realtime Interrupt.

 

[Mytran]

What’s the diff?

In the episodes in which April appears, nothing was established about the colour of his skin, nor was it even relevant to the plot. The actor playing the role was simply the actor who played the role.
Similar to how nothing Saavik did in ST2 or ST3 was affected by whether she looked like Robin Curtis or Kirstie Alley

Compare that to the character of Shran in ENT, where him having blue skin was a plot point in several episodes and even remarked upon by other characters.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Why does anything need to be established in dialogue? Both Aprils’ races are perfectly obvious just by looking at them.

I mean, you wouldn’t dare claim that Sisko, for example, is anything but a black man? Or that Sulu is anything other than Asian? Or that Kirk, Pike, Picard, Janeway, etc. aren’t white? Some things just don’t need explaining.

Bond was cast as a black actor, would that be a step too far, given the background of the character is so well established?

Nothing was ever established about Bond’s race. Only that he’s British. A black Bond wouldn’t violate a stitch of continuity. And each new Bond is a reboot anyway, so there’s that.

 

[Tosk]

There were a lot of things in TAS that were pink but shouldn't have been. Just add April's skin to the list.

 

[Warped9]

Nothing was ever established about Bond’s race. Only that he’s British. A black Bond wouldn’t violate a stitch of continuity. And each new Bond is a reboot anyway, so there’s that.

Not correct. Bond’s heritage was established in the Fleming books and reaffirmed in the films. You wouldn’t find many blacks in early 20th century Scotland. And Fleming said he envisioned Bond looking like Hoagy Carmichael, who was definitely white.

That said you could reboot Bond as black, but it would work only in a contemporary 21st century setting. But if you wanted to put Bond back in his mid 20th century heyday it would work only if he was white.

Changing April’s race is revisionism given TAS at the time was intended as an official extension of TOS. And Dorothy Fontana oversaw the stories produced. They obviously intended Robert April to be white.

In the case of DSC/SNW it doesn’t matter and I don’t give a damn because the DSC/SNW continuity is totally separate from TOS/TAS continuity. It just is, cries to the contrary notwithstanding. And when you have a show runner openly declaring they will ignore previously established continuity as they wish that cements the issue. It’s the closest they have ever come to openly calling it a reboot, which it is.

During TOS’ production if they had ever wanted to portray Robert April as a guest character they could have easily chosen a black actor for the role. Hell, Percy Rodriquez could have been called Robert April instead of Stone. When TAS rolled around and they did decide to have Robert April as a guest character they could have portrayed him as black given on a Saturday morning cartoon few would have really cared. But they didn’t so they established April as caucasian.

In today’s climate that doesn’t preclude April from having a mixed heritage, but that wouldn’t likely have been the intention when the character was originally established.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There were a lot of things in TAS that were pink but shouldn't have been. Just add April's skin to the list.

That was due to Hal Sutherland’s color-blindness.

Although that’s a good point re: April.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I mean, you wouldn’t dare claim that Sisko, for example, is anything but a black man? Or that Sulu is anything other than Asian? Or that Kirk, Pike, Picard, Janeway, etc. aren’t white? Some things just don’t need explaining.

Sisko's race was relevant to at least one episode, "Far Beyond the Stars." Uhura's to "The Savage Curtain."

I don't think Kirk's race has been relevant to any plot or story. He's one of the characters that would work recast with a black actor. Janeway, too. The only thing white about these characters has been the actor.

In terms of the actor, in TAS, April was voiced by James Doohan. Was he drawn to look like James Doohan? Not at all. There isn't even any actor to point to for April's appearance. Visually, what we see in TAS is just an artistic interpretation of how April ought to look. It turns out, that they weren't terribly accurate. There were a lot of visual errors in TAS, and this could be just another one of them.

 

[Mytran]

Why does anything need to be established in dialogue? Both Aprils’ races are perfectly obvious just by looking at them.

Just as it's obvious that two different actresses are playing Saavik, yet that does not affect the characters in the fictional world as presented.

I mean, you wouldn’t dare claim that Sisko, for example, is anything but a black man?

Sisko's race was part of the actual plot in some episodes - Far Beyond The Stars and Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang leap immediately to mind.

That was due to Hal Sutherland’s color-blindness..

That was the myth which circulated for decades but it has been debunked for several years now. According to an interview with TAS storyboard artist/character designer Bob Kline in the 2019 book "Star Trek: The Official Guide to the Animated Series", colour director Irvin Kaplan simply liked the colour pink. Extract from page 26:

The reason pink was used has always been attributed to [Hal] Sutherland and Kaplan both being color-blind. However, that is not exactly the entire story. Sutherland was color-blind, but as it turns out, Kaplan was not.
"Pink equals Irv Kaplan," shared Kline... "Irv was in charge of ink and paint, coloring the various characters and props (and he would do it himself in his office, he would sit down with a cel and paint it). He was also referred to by many people there as the purple and green guy. You'll see it in a lot of scenes, purple and green used together -- that was one of his preferences. He made dragons red, the Kzintis' costumes pink. It was all Irv Kaplan's call. He wasn't listening to anyone else when he picked colors or anything."​

If you don't have the book you can hear the entire interview if you search out the podcast "Saturday Morning Treks", episode 26
http://www.trek.fm/saturday-morning-trek-home

 

[mb22]

Besides "The Savage Curtain", Trelane calls Uhura a "Nubian prize" in "The Squire of Gothos". She also speaks Swahili in "The Man Trap", but that may be a national thing more than a racial one.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I don't think Kirk's race has been relevant to any plot or story. He's one of the characters that would work recast with a black actor. Janeway, too. The only thing white about these characters has been the actor.

In "Spectre of the Gun," the guys are sent to Westworld because Kirk's ancestors pioneered the American west. That's a clear reference to white folks. And, same year, Adam refers to Kirk as "you know, Great White Captain upstairs."