Spoilers Star Trek: Picard General Discussion Thread

[Sci]

Two contrasting takes on the fate of Dr. Agnes Jurati:

The Mary Sue: "Picard's Agnes Jurati Is a Hero and I Will Chuck Anyone Who Says Otherwise Back in Time" by Teresa Jusino

From the beginning, Agnes Jurati has been good at synthetics, bad at humans. She’s also been fascinated by and hopeful about the Borg. She sees a possibility there that she doesn’t see in synthetics or organics — she sees strength in the blending of the two.

Jurati shows no indication of believing that to be true for all organic life, which is why she presses on the Borg Queen that consent is a must. But, in joining with the Queen, Jurati saw the value in what the Borg have to offer her.

Here’s a woman who has historically been terrible at relating to people. Speaking to them in a way she understands through a Borg body allows her to connect with humanity more than she was able to before.

It struck me as similar to a neurodivergent person “unmasking.” As a Borg, Jurati doesn’t have to “do the dance.” She can express herself in a way that feels right while still communicating with, and showing love for, organic life.

This isn’t Jurati being a victim. This is Jurati being a hero. And also being her truest self.
​

* * *

A different point of view over at Women at Warp...

"Agnes Jurati Deserved Better" by Regina Peters

Picard’s shipmate Agnes Jurati, after being assimilated and possessed by the Borg Queen, resists her captor long enough to make her question her policy of forced assimilation and try asking for consent instead. This is portrayed as a happy ending for Jurati, redemption for the Queen and a victory for Starfleet, but I would have preferred a different ending: one in which their new so-called ally shows her good faith by giving back the body she stole.

The story of two smart, lonely women fighting for control of the same body, then agreeing to share it for the sake of galactic peace, is a compelling one, and I understand why it would be popular among viewers. (As of today, there are 46 “Borgati” stories on Archive of Our Own.) I don’t mean to judge anyone for their creative choices. I realize that canon is a suggestion, not a rule, and that what we write about is not necessarily what we’d want to see in reality. However, some fans – like me – are just not good at this kind of detachment. We live through everything the characters do, so when that includes a relationship with all the signs of abuse, we feel the consequences.​

 

[saddestmoon]

@Sci - thanks for linking to those: interesting contrasts.

 

[Tallguy]

It's been a while but I recall while watching Picard 2 that the only time I gave a care was when it involved Jurati.

 

[Commander Troi]

It's been a while but I recall while watching Picard 2 that the only time I gave a care was when it involved Jurati.

Especially in that red dress...

 

[Omegaphallic]

So here’s a question since they renamed the titan-A the enterprise, can we all assume that Captain Shaw is technically an honorary captain of the Enterprise?

Its like your read my mind, but I'd call him a retroactive Captain of the Enterprise (sort of Riker too) because its still the same ship, honorary would suggest he was never actually Captain of the Ship.in the first place.

 

[Nerys Myk]

So do their "little ships" include all the Titans, as well as the Enterprises?

 

[Omegaphallic]

So do their "little ships" include all the Titans, as well as the Enterprises?

I don't know.

 

[Sci]

So here’s a question since they renamed the titan-A the enterprise, can we all assume that Captain Shaw is technically an honorary captain of the Enterprise?

Well, the precedent for this would be whether or not you accept the widely-held "fanon" that the Enterprise-A was rechristened from her original name, the USS Yorktown. If that's the case, then presumably the precedent set there would apply with Shaw. Since the commanding officer(s) of the pre-2285 USS Yorktown are not considered to have been captains of the Enterprise, neither would Saw.

So do their "little ships" include all the Titans, as well as the Enterprises?

If I were Captain Seven of Nine, I would have the "little ships" transferred to the shiny new Luna-class USS Titan NCC-80102-B and replace them with prominent Enterprise models. Then I'd place smaller Titan replicas that don't include the Titan-B placed in a location to honor the Enterprise-G's prior legacy as a Titan.

 

[mattman8907]

So do their "little ships" include all the Titans, as well as the Enterprises?

I would like to think so because it was the Titan before it was rechristened the Enterprise. So maybe

 

[thribs]

So the Pakleds were right. It was another Enterprise

 

[Quantum21]

It's bad enough that a "Legacy" show means we'll get a lot of schmaltzy regurgitated stuff, and that the bridge crew is not particularly interesting on the current G, but we also have to withstand a cartwheel assault on the synapses in order to bring back Shaw, who's an awful captain who tried to let a 20-something kid die.

I'm constantly wishing upon eldritch green candles that this will never happen in this form.

 

[Racefuel]

I see we're now condemning hypothetical shows in advance

 

[Nerys Myk]

I see we're now condemning hypothetical shows in advance

It's our way

 

[Quantum21]

I see we're now condemning hypothetical shows in advance

Indeed, I fear for the very integrity of this series if Matalas works on it. All the things I mentioned are part of his retro cornucopia. Minus the loveability and forgiveness given the cast from this Picard season, we're talking about a very empty show.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Indeed, I fear for the very integrity of this series if Matalas works on it. All the things I mentioned are part of his retro cornucopia. Minus the loveability and forgiveness given the cast from this Picard season, we're talking about a very empty show.

Yes, he'd have to step up his game.

 

[Sci]

Indeed, I fear for the very integrity of this series if Matalas works on it. All the things I mentioned are part of his retro cornucopia. Minus the loveability and forgiveness given the cast from this Picard season, we're talking about a very empty show.

I mean, I don't necessarily think we should take PIC S3 as an indication of how Matalas would normally write a Star Trek show, since it inherently had the remit of being a nostalgic goodbye to Jean-Luc Picard and his people. I would look to his work on 12 Monkeys for a better sense of how he normally writes a show.

 

[Quantum21]

I mean, I don't necessarily think we should take PIC S3 as an indication of how Matalas would normally write a Star Trek show, since it inherently had the remit of being a nostalgic goodbye to Jean-Luc Picard and his people. I would look to his work on 12 Monkeys for a better sense of how he normally writes a show.

This is my problem with hiring a fan boy however. He produces with his heart, not his head. It could veer into bad territory very fast. He needs someone to pull on the reins. Never hire people who have too much at stake personally in a show. Some detachment is warranted.

 

[PicardHitbyTesla]

But does it actually look *good* or do we just like it because it makes us feel warm or fuzzy?

I can't be objective on that, and I doubt anyone else here can.

Basically it went like this:


Why are all the NewTek bridges so dark and black


Then people said you can't do 90s style bridges anymore it's outdated


That's been debunked now

 

[Tallguy]

I see we're now condemning hypothetical shows in advance

As we did in 1986. And probably 1973.

 

[Racefuel]

Basically it went like this:


Why are all the NewTek bridges so dark and black


Then people said you can't do 90s style bridges anymore it's outdated


That's been debunked now

It really hasn't been debunked completely. Yeah the bridges on things like Stargazer and Titan are kind of meh...but if you take away the nostalgia factor..do you really think the TNG style bridge still plays equally well?

The TNG bridge looks good because it's drenched in memberberry syrup..thats about it