Thats it. I dont consider Disc , SNW , or Picard cannon

[Forbin]

Fuck me lad you need to give your head a wobble.

OMG, I can't wait to use this phrase in New Jersey!

 

[Weyoun 251]

OMG, I can't wait to use this phrase in New Jersey!

The two greatest exports from Liverpool to the States - The Beatles and "Give your head a wobble"

 

[ananta]

I suspect you're right. Perhaps if we all could force paramount to understand they don't realize what they're doing, but have you ever tried to convince self deluded, arrogant, talentless peolle that they're wrong, and lack talent? Me neither

Your entire argument is “I don’t like it, therefore it’s BAD and must be STOPPED!!!” Get over yourself, my fella. I don’t love all the new shows, but I either take them for what they are or don’t bother. If Star Trek simply replicated the 90’s era it wouldn’t last five minutes. That era died for a reason; it had gotten stale and uninspired and that was twenty odd years ago.

IDIC.

 

[Racefuel]

Someone here mentioned the premiere of SNW, and how they liked how humans met a random species for the first time, broke the prime directive (the new generation REALLY HATES THE PRIME DIRECTIVE. They think that we are so much "better" and "superior" that we must get involved and must judge alien cultures by our standards, and it happens all the time.in New trek), and then decided to explain earths warring history.

Picard did this kid if thing all the time. He was extremely arrogant when it came to espousing how superior humanity had become to other cultures.

I don’t know what Star Trek you think you watched, but I would suggest you try watching TNG and TOS again before you scream about how SNW handled things.

oh and maybe add Let That Be Your Last Battlefield to preachy superior humanity stories in Trek

 

[1001001]

Just curious, it's fine to make ad hominem attacks and repeatedly call people stupid and ignorant?

Of course not. The specific post I quoted was a great improvement over earlier ones, and I wanted to acknowledge that. Even if I disagree with all points.

And my response included very specific "leave the insults of fans out it" language. Calling the writers "stupid" may not be nice, or helpful, but it is not flaming. They aren't members here.

That's all I was trying to say.

 

[Orphalesion]

I mean I have made it abundantly clear on these forums that my dislike for PIC burns with the intensity of a thousands suns.

But IDK....I just don't watch it, and generally ignore it. I also don't watch DISC.
Though DISC is not a show I dislike in the way I do PIC, rather I just find it kind of boring despite liking several of the characters.

And I must say through this both shows have very little effect on me. I only come in contact with them when I read something here or hear something from friends who also watch Trek.
So to me, and in relation to my enjoyment of Trek those two shows might just not exist. And that's good enough for me.

 

[SJGardner]

Soon, communications from all of your vessels will be blocked. None of you are free of sin.

Ahem. I just love the idea that we're being peer pressured into pretending to like nuTrek by threat of expulsion from the Holy Circle or whatever. It's not as though the vast majority of my IRL interactions with Trek fans wasn't spent with them trying to ostracize me for not liking and interpreting Trek their way or not hating the same series they do for the same reasons they have. Hell, I was even laughed out of a Trek-related discussion at my work for daring to insinuate Jeri Ryan wasn't my type.

 

[cooleddie74]

I've been a fan for nearly half a century. I don't need the Purity Battalions to show up and test my urine for proof of fandom and the quickest way for me to ignore a Trek fan's opinion or make fun of said opinion is for them to say they know what "real" Star Trek is and remind everyone every opportunity they get.

Cool. You think DSC and PIC and SNW suck. More power to you. Just stop asking me to take the Blade Runner replicant test to make sure I'm one of the real people.

 

[Racefuel]

Yeah I really dislike the idea that self anointed Trek Inquisitors are going to roam around making sure that heretics are punished and the extra canonical works are burned.

I’ve been an active Trek fan for 32 years and while I don’t like the every moment of Trek I am not so arrogant to assume that my opinion is the only way and the rest must conform.

 

[Amaris]

39 years of Star Trek here. I like what I like. You like what you like. No fan is more "real" than the other. That's just divisive, petty, unnecessary horse shit.

 

[Annorax849]

Even Roddenberry Himself only considered TOS to be a dramatization of events and felt the TMP style was the "proper" way the Trek universe was supposed to look.

Ironic since that's aged at least as bad imo

 

[Tomalak]

Of course not. The specific post I quoted was a great improvement over earlier ones, and I wanted to acknowledge that. Even if I disagree with all points.

And my response included very specific "leave the insults of fans out it" language. Calling the writers "stupid" may not be nice, or helpful, but it is not flaming. They aren't members here.

That's all I was trying to say.

Fair enough, I appreciate the response.

 

[cooleddie74]

Take your idea of "real Trek" and beam into an alternative universe with it. Gatekeepers suck in almost anything.

 

[BillJ]

Take your idea of "real Trek" and beam into an alternative universe with it. Gatekeepers suck in almost anything.

I have been a fan since 1975, and I’m still waiting for someone to define what “real Trek” is.

 

[IAmAParrot]

^^this, on all counts.

Trek is one of a handful of shows that managed to expand its format in so many directions, styles, and content. Some are more sledgehammer, but so was TOS for some of its episodes. It is about having enough elements and "more than the sum of its parts".

Plus, attempting something different - even if it's within the banner of a franchise - deserves some kudos. After all, in 1964, "Star Trek" was different and not really done before in scope or scale - and the suits hated it, citing it was "too cerebral'*. Or the second pilot in 1965, which was greenlit for a full series, after it was given more action (but still has enough intellectual brainy specs stuff, guffaw guffaw), had Majel Barret removed since they didn't like her as #1 (for which the underlying stories conflict, but TNG has episodes revolving around her and she definitely has the charisma and ability to be a lead), but kept the shouty devil-lookalike figure but toned him down via using the traits #1 had now applied to him. Add in Dr McCoy to bounce off of and The Big Three would take off like a rocket shortly thereafter.

* it feels proto-TNG, and takes the issue of sex/reproduction and uses it far more maturely than TNG episodes such as "Justice". It's not entirely unlike comparing songs, such as Jefferson Airpane's "Triad" against Britney's "3". You'll find fans of both, detractors of both, and any combination in between. The unliked album can remain on the shelf. It's that simple.



Now, I think they're supposed to wear body suits that look like us, complete with big 80s hair, in 3 mile-long spaceships, named John and Diana and such, and have come to take and eat us but not in the fun ways. Or space-faring aliens are as common as the Quagaars of Red Dwarf fame...

I used to not be able to stand majel in any episodes when I was younger, but now, I enjoy your you're right. She also had some of.her best episodes in ds9. Shes also.my favorite computer voice.

But you must admit, there are far too many shows or movies that were brought back that the original fans, simply hate..I think the main issue is, the media corporations are too desperately trying to appeal to modern "likes" and dislikes, and appeal to our modern social media generation style of "thought" (if it exists), and forms and patterns of communication and jokes etc, which logic and reason have a very small part of in today's culture if any at all. This makes them change legacy shows, movies, and especially the characters and storylines to be sensible to today's "culture", thinking they will please everyone, only to.end up confused wondering why people didn't like it..

Well of course there were many core fans who didn't like it. They deal with modern culture daily. Sometimes we want to watch something to escape our modern reality. We don't want to watch characters in a fantasy or sci-fi movie or show, behave and talk like it is 2023. That's what's unappealing. If people loved tng because they spoke professionally, for the most part, and most episodes dealt with philosophical, or ethical, or moral issues, then give us that.

I'll tell you one thing. I can fall asleep to Berman Era trek or tos very easily. It's almost asmr in quality..but definitely not with new trek.
Shows back then engaged our minds and hearts more. Shows today feels like being on some thrill ride or roller coaster. It's not the same.

 

[Amaris]

Ironic since that's aged at least as bad imo

I love the TMP style in almost everything except the uniforms. I did really like the ST09 update to the TMP admiral's uniform, though. That looked snazzy.

 

[cooleddie74]

I have been a fan since 1975, and I’m still waiting for someone to define what “real Trek” is.

What they like and you don't and vice versa.

 

[IAmAParrot]

Well, but Roddenberry never was a true Roddenberrian, was he?

His nonchalance and levity about such things needlessly threatened the purity of the Roddenberrian Vision!

(/sarcasm, of course. But to draw the parallel with religion in real life again, I know of some fundamentalist Christians that declared that Jesus Christ himself was a bit too liberal for their tastes).

Well of course they do in the USA. How else could they justify constant wars and nonstop greed? How else could they justify telebangelists raking the millions while their donors are desperate and or poor? I'm atheist, but I think if you can't follow your own teachings because your leader is just too "commie" for you, and you rather listen to the teachings of people in your greedy warlike society rather than your supposed "deity", then you're just pretending to be religious or have a serious lack of understanding of what religion is about.

 

[IAmAParrot]

Gene was a visionary when he wanted to be, but damn, in other ways could he be an idiot.

I mean you're right. As much as we don't like.berman, he did do some things right. Roddenberry had an idea to make troi have three breasts. I think Jeri Taylor had to say, please don't. And Yea they ousted him by season 3 of tng, he was in bad health by that time. I agree season 1 was very stale and bad specifically due to Roddenberry, as was TMP. Klingons are thanks to gene coon. And I'm glad he didn't have much of a way after tng season 3 or we wouldn't have ds9, one of the best series ever, as well as voyager. Voyager appeals to some and others hate it. To love and understand voyager, you have to have been longing for something for a long time, to truly understand deeply what they must be Going through being so far from home. That's it's charm. It's instantly relatable if you can relate

 

[IAmAParrot]

I mean I have made it abundantly clear on these forums that my dislike for PIC burns with the intensity of a thousands suns.

But IDK....I just don't watch it, and generally ignore it. I also don't watch DISC.
Though DISC is not a show I dislike in the way I do PIC, rather I just find it kind of boring despite liking several of the characters.

And I must say through this both shows have very little effect on me. I only come in contact with them when I read something here or hear something from friends who also watch Trek.
So to me, and in relation to my enjoyment of Trek those two shows might just not exist. And that's good enough for me.

When discovery came out it was a surprise to me..believe me I was excited and even watched episode 1 and kind of liked it. But it spiraled down from there.

I'll tell you what, I don't mind lower decks, I just can't stand today's humor, can't they try to make it sound like the "24th century" tng style and create humor based on that rather than today's style?

Also I really really like prodigy. There. I actually get excited for a new prodigy episode. It's the only new trek so far I'm happy about. Because they made their legacy characters just how they were back then. Janeway is the same janeway. So is chakotay. Starfleet looks hopeful. The kids are really likeable and sweet. That's what I love about the federation's values.