Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard

[ExtremeSail]

It isn't about being "cancelled", it's about principles. It's one thing to make a mistake or say dumb shit when drunk but it's another to wish death on someone. Over a tv show. Really.

This sort of behaviour can't be condoned and normalised in fandoms, ESPECIALLY by fans of Star Trek; I shouldn't have to point this out but it goes against what he show stands for.

And to continue to (financially) support these fools whose channel is based on nitpicking and "NoT mY cAnOn" to the extreme by just handwaving away their toxicity is astounding to me. It says more about you folks than it does we who complain about them.

 

[Tuskin38]

I just don't care enough to let it make me a toxic and bitter fan. Sorry.

Him wishing someone who has never harmed him to be dead is toxic behaviour, not what I'm doing.

Calling him a 'terrible person' is also an opinion

Wishing someone who has never harmed you to be dead is terrible person behaviour, that's not an opinion.

 

[HotRod]

Just because one person said one nasty thing when the were hammered doesn't mean they should be "cancelled" and it doesn't justify us for jumping to conclusions about who they are as a person,

Again, it's hardly an isolated incident. I used to watch TrekYards. I even Kinda liked it, years ago. But, then the hate started.

The vitriol. It became obvious what kinda person Foley is. So I quit watching. And every so often, my algorithm likes to throw them back at me, so I figured I'd give it chance as background fodder while I work on my hobby.

That's where the death wish came into play. So don't act like this is a first offense.

And here I thought Star Trek Fans were considered to be more intellectual and moral than their Sci Fi counterparts, I suppose that was niave of me... Hahaha.

Are you new to the internet? Hell, i used to chuckle at comments in Starlog Magazine, back in the day. Trekkies have never got along.

Ah, so you pity those you dislike.

More like I pity those people so stupid they can't see how stupid they're actually acting.

Then you'll be missing out on lots of really cool people to hang out with.

Yeah, I don't consider those people to be any kinda "cool".

Wow, that's a giant chunk of fandom in general.

Sad, isn't it?

You do you, you're the one who's going to miss out on alot of cool folks.

I think we have a different definition of the meaning of "cool".

 

[USS Artorius]

No one is handwaving anything, and I don't financially support Trek yards myself in any way. I never knew he made that comment and I was better off not knowing. One person's out-of-character lashing out should not be enough to justify cutting all ties and spreading further hate. By all means start a thread titled 'Why I refuse to support Captain Foley and therefore Trek Yards as a whole'. Purely based on 'principles' if my best friend said they wanted someone dead I sure as hell wouldn't believe they were being sincere, and we should give creators the same benefit of the doubt every once and a while. Cherry picking quotes to justify spreading further hate is just as bad as the original instance of said hate. When did you get so cynical and tired, personally I enjoy being optimistic and ignorance is bliss in small doses. I was better off not knowing what he said and I don't care what anyone says that makes me because it's not worth my time.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Honestly, I don't mind disagreements. You and I rarely agree. I don't wish death upon you at all.

It's ok that we don't agree, that's what makes us unique human beings.

Sorry, maybe its personal experience or professional experience, but man death is treated as a big deal when it involves characters we like but apparently casual wishing death on real people is treated as pedestrian. I don't get it. Sorry but I don't. It's mean spirited, short sighted and makes me concerned for a person's mental health.

To me, people wishing death on others is pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things.
I've heard it so many times, most people don't mean anything by it.
Most people won't do jack squat to back up their claim.

 

[fireproof78]

To me, people wishing death on others is pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things.
I've heard it so many times, most people don't mean anything by it.
Most people won't do jack squat to back up their claim.

Then don't say it.

Sorry, I have hit the age were you say what you mean and you mean what you say. I take death seriously because in my field kids are not always joking when they wish for death; either suicide or homicidal statements are a reality of my field. I won't treat it lightly, I won't laugh it off, I won't ignore behavior that fails to communicate appropriately. I may forgive, but forgiveness does not mean people get to waltz back in to my life without caution on my part.

 

[Tuskin38]

To me, people wishing death on others is pretty trivial

It can get you arrested, hardly trivial.

This is the last I'm commenting on this.

 

[USS Artorius]

It's ok that we don't agree, that's what makes us unique human beings.


To me, people wishing death on others is pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things.
I've heard it so many times, most people don't mean anything by it.
Most people won't do jack squat to back up their claim.

Yeah. Humans can get nasty sometimes. Fancy saying 'bad personal behaviour' isn't an opinion. What dictates our behaviour? Society, law, finance, personal experience.. Everything in life, basically. And they think everyone should act in the same way and no one should have the ability to make mistakes. That sounds a bit like the Borg to me.....

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Then don't say it.

It's not up to me to make those rules.
People say what they don't mean all the damn time.
It's part of humanity.

Sorry, I have hit the age were you say what you mean and you mean what you say. I take death seriously because in my field kids are not always joking when they wish for death; either suicide or homicidal statements are a reality of my field. I won't treat it lightly, I won't laugh it off, I won't ignore behavior that fails to communicate appropriately. I may forgive, but forgiveness does not mean people get to waltz back in to my life without caution on my part.

Then you must've forgot what dealing with those who are not like your age.
People say that kind of stuff casually every freaking day, almost in every other sentence.

It can get you arrested, hardly trivial.

This is the last I'm commenting on this.

Depends on context and on whom.

That's the reality of casually talking with normal people.

 

[fireproof78]

Then you must've forgot what dealing with those who are not like your age.
People say that casually every freaking day, almost in every other sentence.

Pardon me? I work with kids, youth and teens who are saying suicidal, and homicidal things, and dealing with their peers threatening suicide. I will not take it lightly. In my field it could me someone is going to try to hurt themselves or someone else.

People need to not be so casual about it. Take it seriously and don't expect me to play it off lightly. I won't.

 

[HotRod]

The last I will say on this is to ask a question. Do you think Stuart Foley is sorry for what he said? With everything that we know about him, if someone were to call him out on it, would he feel bad and offer an apology? Or would he double down/get his back up?

I think we all know the answer.

 

[USS Artorius]

Then don't say it.

Sorry, I have hit the age were you say what you mean and you mean what you say. I take death seriously because in my field kids are not always joking when they wish for death; either suicide or homicidal statements are a reality of my field. I won't treat it lightly, I won't laugh it off, I won't ignore behavior that fails to communicate appropriately. I may forgive, but forgiveness does not mean people get to waltz back in to my life without caution on my part.

Sounds like you should sign Captain Foley up to whatever counselling program you have going on.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Pardon me? I work with kids, youth and teens who are saying suicidal, and homicidal things, and dealing with their peers threatening suicide. I will not take it lightly. In my field it could me someone is going to try to hurt themselves or someone else.

People need to not be so casual about it. Take it seriously and don't expect me to play it off lightly. I won't.

That's your work side making your judgement calls.

Normal people interacting everyday talk like this.
It doesn't matter how we feel about it.
It happens all the damn time, and it's normal.

 

[fireproof78]

Sounds like you should sign Captain Foley up to whatever counselling program you have going on.

I work with 18 and under in schools. Not sure Foley qualifies. I do hope he finds a measure of help.

Normal people interacting everyday talk like this.
It doesn't matter how we feel about it.
It happens all the damn time, and it's normal.

No, no it doesn't. I worked in retail for ten years and people did not say it "all the damn time." It's not normal in my experience and I don't joke about it.

And dismissing my feelings is about the extent of this conversation. I will be stepping away because this is beginning to missing the point for daring to disagree with and refusing to support a channel that I think has behaviors that are not appropriate.

I'm out of this. Thanks.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The last I will say on this is to ask a question. Do you think Stuart Foley is sorry for what he said? With everything that we know about him, if someone were to call him out on it, would he feel bad and offer an apology? Or would he double down/get his back up?

I think we all know the answer.

It doesn't matter what he says.
He's talking tough, like many other folks who do that stuff.
Most people won't do anything more than talk tough when they spout stuff like that.

 

[HotRod]

and it's normal.

the fuck it is. I dunno what world you're living in, but in my little slice of Canada, which is coincidentally the same slice as Foley, it's not normal. And if you think it's OK for people to just go around wishing death over petty things, or anything for that matter, then there is something seriously wrong with you.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

No, no it doesn't. I worked in retail for ten years and people did not say it "all the damn time." It's not normal in my experience and I don't joke about it.

Then that must be your area of living under your circumstances during your time. People in my area do that ALOT.
Doesn't discount your experience or mines.

And dismissing my feelings is about the extent of this conversation. I will be stepping away because this is beginning to missing the point for daring to disagree with and refusing to support a channel that I think has behaviors that are not appropriate.

It doesn't dismiss your feelings. Your world view is colored by your job as a counselor.
You just haven't encountered a very different world where people behave much differently than what you expect.

I'm out of this. Thanks.

That's up to you

the fuck it is. I dunno what world you're living in, but in my little slice of Canada, which is coincidentally the same slice as Foley, it's not normal. And if you think it's OK for people to just go around wishing death over petty things, or anything for that matter, then there is something seriously wrong with you.

It's pretty normal over here in Los Angeles.
Most people talk tough, won't do shit about it or do anything to back it up.
I'm sure there are parts of Canada who have people who behave the exact same way.

You assuming all Canadians behave the same way you expect them to is presumptuous.
There are a wide array of people out there. Many who don't fit your view.
Don't be surprised when you encounter them. They are out there.

 

[USS Artorius]

If I got this irate and upset every single time a person I didn't even know threatened someone else I would be in a mental hospital. Being a counselor requires not just empathy but also the ability to disconnect from your clients emotions and rationale in order for it not to affect your own mental state. As a counsellor it's your job to say "no that's not good behaviour" but in the context of my first comment, as a YouTube audience member, it's not my place.

What the hell happened to this thread?

 

[fireproof78]

If I got this irate and upset every single time a person I didn't even know threatened someone else I would be in a mental hospital. Being a counselor requires not just empathy but also the ability to disconnect from your clients emotions and rationale in order for it not to affect your own mental state. As a counsellor it's your job to say "no that's not good behaviour" but in the context of my first comment, as a YouTube audience member, it's not my place.

And if he were my client sitting in my office I would be happy to offer empathy, and to explore alternative ways to express his anger. And I've done so with many clients who would come in and say some pretty extreme things but then we would talk it out and discover they didn't want to go murder the next person they saw, or they didn't want to blow up their school, or they weren't going to slit their wrists.

I have empathy for Foley. But I don't condone his behavior. I'm not irate at him. I simply won't support the channel. And I'm being told that my feelings don't matter and that my experience is not normal. And respectfully to all that's really frustrating. All I stated was my disagreement with a statement and my choice not to watch an YT channel. Which, by and large, I don't support most, if not all, Star Trek YT channels. I just don't. I've moved past that in my life. It's not for me. I stated my opinion, found out the people who liked it and the people who disliked it and have summarily gotten judged for it.

All and all, a good day, right?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

What the hell happened to this thread?

Some people got dis-illusioned by how real people behave.
It shocks them that not everybody is polite and well mannered.
That people routinely say what they don't mean.

And if he were my client sitting in my office I would be happy to offer empathy, and to explore alternative ways to express his anger. And I've done so with many clients who would come in and say some pretty extreme things but then we would talk it out and discover they didn't want to go murder the next person they saw, or they didn't want to blow up their school, or they weren't going to slit their wrists.

I have empathy for Foley. But I don't condone his behavior. I'm not irate at him. I simply won't support the channel. And I'm being told that my feelings don't matter and that my experience is not normal. And respectfully to all that's really frustrating. All I stated was my disagreement with a statement and my choice not to watch an YT channel. Which, by and large, I don't support most, if not all, Star Trek YT channels. I just don't. I've moved past that in my life. It's not for me. I stated my opinion, found out the people who liked it and the people who disliked it and have summarily gotten judged for it.

All and all, a good day, right?

None of our feelings matter in the grand scheme of how other people behave.
They're going to do what they normally do.
If that means that they make empty threats, they'll do it.
It's part of who they are. Most people don't take it seriously.