Paramount apparently still doesn't get it...

[fireproof78]

How many people said the same about O'Brien? He's now one of the most popular recent Trek characters. "Everymen" are poular.

Shaw is a different flavor of that everyman that doesn't quite sit right with me. By the actor's own admission Shaw is written as a "21st century asshole." That doesn't fit as well as I think it should against the 25th century backdrop. His background is understandable, relatable on some levels, but his fitting in to the general landscape is less successful because of his portrayal and constantly feeling like he is out of his element.

 

[valkyrie013]

Shaw is a different flavor of that everyman that doesn't quite sit right with me. By the actor's own admission Shaw is written as a "21st century asshole." That doesn't fit as well as I think it should against the 25th century backdrop. His background is understandable, relatable on some levels, but his fitting in to the general landscape is less successful because of his portrayal and constantly feeling like he is out of his element.

He is out of his element. Hes a captain, yes. But a captain of a certain type of ship, exploratory with minimal weapons. He doesn't expect to get into trouble, he's charting gaseous anomalies in already explored space etc. Not facing killer bad guys, end of the federation level stuff, he's in over his head, and its why he defers to Picard and Riker, even when he's healthy.
We've never had an "Engineer" captain ( yes Geordi on cameo appearances)

 

[fireproof78]

He is out of his element. Hes a captain, yes. But a captain of a certain type of ship, exploratory with minimal weapons. He doesn't expect to get into trouble, he's charting gaseous anomalies in already explored space etc. Not facing killer bad guys, end of the federation level stuff, he's in over his head, and its why he defers to Picard and Riker, even when he's healthy.
We've never had an "Engineer" captain ( yes Geordi on cameo appearances)

Yes, and that's not endearing itself to me.

 

[Dukhat]

I think the real animosity towards SFA has nothing to do with SFA itself, it has to with SFA being a spin-off of DSC. The wind has been knocked out of the sails of the people who wanted to be rid of Disco.

A Starfleet Academy series, in any era, would not have been my first choice of shows to produce. But this particular show smacks of desperation to me. As many people have stated, the idea was always the ‘go-to’ thing when something wasn’t working out production-wise. And now Paramount+ needs to cut back on their budget. Yes, the show will benefit cost-wise from using the same production assets from DSC, but I’m curious as to how the show will suffer otherwise. Anybody remember all the Babyon 5 miniseries produced after the titular show ended, on a significantly reduced budget? They sucked.

 

[valkyrie013]

What sets are they going to reuse from Discovery? most of them are of the disco.. a 23rd century ship.. that won't be seen or used in the new series ( possibly), all the others are Volume stages.
So setting the Academy series in 32 isn't saving them much in "Set in" costs.

 

[fireproof78]

What sets are they going to reuse from Discovery? most of them are of the disco.. a 23rd century ship.. that won't be seen or used in the new series ( possibly), all the others are Volume stages.
So setting the Academy series in 32 isn't saving them much in "Set in" costs.

Probably Starfleet Command sets.

 

[F. King Daniel]

There were rumours waaaaay back before Voyager ended that series V (what became Enterprise)was gonna be set at the Academy and feature a gay character.

 

[Lord Garth]

How many people said the same about O'Brien? He's now one of the most popular recent Trek characters. "Everymen" are poular.

I'm still for Legacy, as long as they have some sort of balance between old and new characters (yes, I'm sorry, but there HAS to be a balance). Shaw just happens to be along for the ride.

 

[Sci]

I love how people are talking about Star Trek: Legacy like it's a real series and not just the half-baked pitch with no substance that it actually is.

 

[fireproof78]

I love how people are talking about Star Trek: Legacy like it's a real series and not just the half-baked pitch with no substance that it actually is.

Fans have their own reality.

 

[Sci]

I can only speak for myself, but I find Sydney far more interesting than either Rios or Raffi. It's just a case of which characters gel with the audience and which ones don't.

There is no objective reason for the (majority-white) audience to "gel" with Shaw better than Rios or Raffi. They have extremely similar personality flaws and Shaw hasn't gotten nearly as much development as either. So I don't buy that those audience members who feel so alienated from Rios and Raffi but feel so sympathetic to Shaw are not influenced by subconscious racial bias.

No need to be playing the race card.

The use of the phrase "the race card" negates your argument.

Sisko was just as much an a-hole as Shaw (at first),

No, and he received more development from the start. (Which is not a criticism of how Shaw has been written -- Shaw is a recurring character, not the star of the show, so it is natural that Sisko would receive more development.)

* * *

Meanwhile, there's no real way to reconcile this with canon, but I would find an AU story where Shaw is Rios's first officer amusing.

 

[Greg Cox]

Shaw is a different flavor of that everyman that doesn't quite sit right with me. By the actor's own admission Shaw is written as a "21st century asshole." That doesn't fit as well as I think it should against the 25th century backdrop. His background is understandable, relatable on some levels, but his fitting in to the general landscape is less successful because of his portrayal and constantly feeling like he is out of his element.

Assholes will be with us always. I admit I'm a bit bemused by the way so many modern fans seem to have trouble wrapping their heads around the fact that a character like Shaw can exist in Star Trek, leading to many pages in many threads of discussion and psychological analysis to somehow "explain" why he is the way he and whether this is suitable for a Starfleet captain.

I have to wonder: If "The Trouble with Tribbles" aired today, would there be endless discussion of why Nilz Baris was such a prickly, self-important jerk? Or would we just except that difficult people exist, even in STAR TREK?

For the record, I'm finding Shaw a delight. He's a colorful, complicated character who tends to spice up every scene he's in. Should every STAR TREK character be like him? Of course not. He's a pungent spice to contrast with the other flavors in the dish. And PICARD is the better for it.

 

[fireproof78]

Assholes will be with us always. I admit I'm a bit bemused by the way so many modern fans seem to have trouble wrapping their heads around the fact that a character like Shaw can exist in Star Trek, leading to many pages in many threads of discussion and psychological analysis to somehow "explain" why he is the way he and whether this is suitable for a Starfleet captain.

I have to wonder: If "The Trouble with Tribbles" aired today, would there be endless discussion of why Nilz Baris was such a prickly, self-important jerk? Or would we just except that difficult people exist, even in STAR TREK?

For the record, I'm finding Shaw a delight. He's a colorful, complicated character who tends to spice up every scene he's in. Should every STAR TREK character be like him? Of course not. He's a pungent spice to contrast with the other flavors in the dish. And PICARD is the better for it.

I don't mind him as an asshole; just that he is written as a 21st century asshole variation and this is blindly acceptable.

I'm slowly warming up to Shaw, though the presentation in the story is still a work I progress for me. Certainly not lead character of a Trek show yet.

 

[Sci]

I don't mind him as an asshole; just that he is written as a 21st century asshole variation and this is blindly acceptable.

I'm slowly warming up to Shaw, though the presentation in the story is still a work I progress for me. Certainly not lead character of a Trek show yet.

Absolutely he's not lead character material. If they were to do a spin-off, Seven should clearly be the lead character and Shaw a supporting character.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I can buy Shaw as a character in Star Trek, I could even buy him as someone with authority somewhere, but I feel like Starfleet must have really changed since Picard's day if they consider him fit to command a ship.

 

[fireproof78]

Changed how? Kirk, Picard, Sisko all had trauma of some kind. Picard was even kept from a battle.

Shaw seems like his background is line with past captains.

 

[Greg Cox]

I can buy Shaw as a character in Star Trek, I could even buy him as someone with authority somewhere, but I feel like Starfleet must have really changed since Picard's day if they consider him fit to command a ship.

Presumably his track record in justified it, as he came up through the ranks. And indeed all indications are that everything was running smoothly under his command until Picard and Riker showed up. The Titan was carrying out its missions effectively and efficiently; the ship was in good shape and not taking major damage every week; the crew was not in jeopardy; no redshirts were dying off. One assumes that Shaw routinely got the job done with a minimum of excitement, and was therefore seen by Starfleet as a steady, reliable captain who took good care of his ship and crew.

He wasn't saving the galaxy, but he wasn't giving Starfleet Command ulcers either.

 

[Sci]

I can buy Shaw as a character in Star Trek, I could even buy him as someone with authority somewhere, but I feel like Starfleet must have really changed since Picard's day if they consider him fit to command a ship.

Oh I dunno. He strikes me as very much in the Jellico mold (except that he's not willing to intentionally disrupt his crew's sleep cycle on the eve of battle for the sake of his personal preference in duty schedules).

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

It's possible his behavior has changed dramatically due to the presence of his visitors, we've certainly seen that before with other captains. But the way others speak about him and the way he speaks about himself, gave me the impression that this is basically what he's like, and he's not someone who's up to the job of managing people and representing the Federation.

 

[Nyotarules]

I can buy Shaw as a character in Star Trek, I could even buy him as someone with authority somewhere, but I feel like Starfleet must have really changed since Picard's day if they consider him fit to command a ship.

Because every starship captain is going to be like Picard, or Kirk, or Archer or......
What in the TNG era gives the impression all Starfleet captains were meant to be the same?