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25th century ranks

Well, I wouldn't say absolutely nothing. I think much of the confusion stems from TNG season 1 where admirals wore a weird rank braid insignia.

We've seen Quinn and Jameson with just the braid, Savar with the braid and one pip beneath, and Aaron with braid and two pips.

Since arguably just the braid should logically be the lowest admiralty rank and Quinn and Jameson were addressed as admiral, the implication seems to be that the one star rank wasn't called Commodore during that time.

https://startrekcostumeguide.com/tn...l-season-1/costume-analysis/uniform-analysis/
I don't like how modern "Flag Officers" or "Admiralty" still wears pips with a Trapezoid surrounding it to show that they're above the regular Rank & File crew when they're shown on ST:Picard and ST:Prodigy in the late 24th / early 25th century.

I thing "Flag Officers" should be wearing the standard 5-Point Star instead of circular Pips.
Mount the 5-Point Stars on a single piece Rank Badge and call it a day.

You can do something fancy with the 5-Point Star and have the StarFleet Arrow-head hidden within the points of the Star and all pointing outwards.

Instead of frilly accents on the edges of the uniform, just give the flag officers a simple "Cape" to distinguish them from regular "Field Officers" & "Line Officers".
 
I don't like how this new generation of costume makers have no clue about rank structure.

It started with DIS where it is almost impossible to tell rank (both on the old and new insignia) unless you have a 4k publicity shot. On SNW there is almost no correlation between dialogue and rank stripes. Pike and Uhura are the only ones of the main (!) cast who wear appropriate stripes (I hope they fix this in Season 2). On PRO that Denobulan wore two rank insignia due to a missunderstanding of position Vs rank. And the PIC costume maker has proven her ignorance by posting two weird ass rank charts for Starfleet and the Confederation.
 
I don't like how this new generation of costume makers have no clue about rank structure.

It started with DIS where it is almost impossible to tell rank (both on the old and new insignia) unless you have a 4k publicity shot. On SNW there is almost no correlation between dialogue and rank stripes. Pike and Uhura are the only ones of the main (!) cast who wear appropriate stripes (I hope they fix this in Season 2). On PRO that Denobulan wore two rank insignia due to a missunderstanding of position Vs rank. And the PIC costume maker has proven her ignorance by posting two weird ass rank charts for Starfleet and the Confederation.
Oh, SNW is terrible about it.
 
I could nitpick the point of most Trek using rank insignia so minimally designed that it would be difficult to impossible for others to read from a distance or most angles...
 
Some characters may have one stripe too many.

Ensign Chapel - 2 stripes
Lt. Spock - 1.5 stripes
Lt. Cmdr. Chin-Riley - 2 stripes
Lt. Hemmer - 2 stripes
Lt. Ortegas - 1.5 stripes
Lt. Singh - 1.5 stripes
M'Benga - 2 stripes (I'm on the fence on that one. We still need to learn why he lost his CMO position to Piper/McCoy)
 
We need a clear seperation of each Rank, and one that is consistent for a "integrated force" where there is no seperate rank division of 'Officer' & 'Enlisted'.

Everybody is pretty much a "StarFleet Officer" within the show/universe.

The archaic class based seperation of 'Officer' & 'Enlisted' really needs to go away.
The idea that everyone in Starfleet is an officer was silly and impractical as reflected by the fact that they never could depict such a thing. Simply put, you need an officer and enlisted divide in order to function.

Now, there should not be segregation between the two, and indeed evidence would suggest there isn't, O'Brien said he was offered an officer's commission which he refused, but there still needs to be divide regardless and indeed you'll find in every workplace environment there are similar divides, IE the medical profession has doctors and nurses, and so on. It's simply how shit is done.
The only thing that irks me about it is that if the rank existed at the time, then Sisko should technically have been given the rank when he was working under Ross in charge of the fleet.
Behr wanted Sisko to be promoted to Admiral when the War started, Berman overruled him saying "Star Trek is about the Captains in the lead, that's the argument you used to have Sisko promoted to Captain in the first place."
 
“The idea that everyone in Starfleet is an officer was silly and impractical as reflected by the fact that they never could depict such a thing. ”

That isn’t the way a police department functions. Everyone from patrolman to chief is a police officer. Roddenberry was not only a WW2 pilot- he was a Los Angeles policeman, and he was explicitly equating his “silly” claim that Starfleet was staffed entirely by officers with police when he also said Starfleet was paramilitary.

The claim that Starfleet is staffed entirely by officers is not silly and fits the police model. The claim it is such a paramilitary organization when you go and depict it as a military is at the least… incongruous.
 
The Confederation ranks sure are weird. Is Sergeant actually their lowest rank? Major outranks Colonel? They seem to have a primarily Army rank structure but for some reason have naval ranks like Commander and Commodore mixed in. That one is a mess.

The only oddity I'm noticing on the 25th century Starfleet chart is that the two-star flag rank is referred to as "Fleet Admiral." It should be Rear Admiral. Okay, I'm also noticing they refer to the four star and five star ranks as "Four/Five Star Fleet Admiral." Four Star should just be Admiral, while five star is the one that should be called Fleet Admiral.
“The idea that everyone in Starfleet is an officer was silly and impractical as reflected by the fact that they never could depict such a thing. ”

That isn’t the way a police department functions. Everyone from patrolman to chief is a police officer. Roddenberry was not only a WW2 pilot- he was a Los Angeles policeman, and he was explicitly equating his “silly” claim that Starfleet was staffed entirely by officers with police when he also said Starfleet was paramilitary.

The claim that Starfleet is staffed entirely by officers is not silly and fits the police model. The claim it is such a paramilitary organization when you go and depict it as a military is at the least… incongruous.
Starfleet is not a police force. And while we can spend all day arguing over what Starfleet is or isn't, one thing we can all agree on is that it is a shipping service, since they do work on ships. And those who work on ships need the officer and enlisted divide, with the officers being the ones in a supervisory role and the enlisted doing the actual grunt work. That's just logic.
 
Pretty sure its been clear in TOS and TOS Movie Era about who is an officer and who is enlisted. It got a little muddled in TNG when you had the new uniforms and pips, but it became more clear in DS9 when you had enlisted collar ranks and officer collar ranks (See: Pips vs what Chief Obrien has)
 
The only thing that irks me about it is that if the rank existed at the time, then Sisko should technically have been given the rank when he was working under Ross in charge of the fleet.

He was acting as an Adjutant, who is an assistant to an Admiral. I don't believe he had any direct command over the fleet, all his ideas had to run through Ross.

The term used has been "Fleet Captain", which also may or may not have applied to Sisko.

"Fleet captain is a historic military title that was bestowed upon a naval officer who served as chief of staff to a flag officer."
 
The idea that everyone in Starfleet is an officer was silly and impractical as reflected by the fact that they never could depict such a thing. Simply put, you need an officer and enlisted divide in order to function.

Now, there should not be segregation between the two, and indeed evidence would suggest there isn't, O'Brien said he was offered an officer's commission which he refused, but there still needs to be divide regardless and indeed you'll find in every workplace environment there are similar divides, IE the medical profession has doctors and nurses, and so on. It's simply how shit is done.
The concept of having two seperate schools & ranks systems along with different training is based on historical British Classes. It's antiquated, an old concept, and obsolete.

I'm in agreement to this Op-Ed:
Bad Idea: The Officer-Enlisted Divide

One Hierarchy, one set of schooling, one set of ranks. "Everybody is an officer" and goes to the same school for the same things. No divide.

Those who want to go up to Management / Command level, should be given the chance.
Everybody who can study/qualify/train for it, shall get the chance to do so eventually.
That's why there is a Command Track that StarFleet officer gradually goes down towards.
But before they get to be in Command, they have to train in certain specialized positions before they get to that point.

If you want to be a generalist, you should be allowed to do so.
If you want to be a specialist, you should be allowed to do so.

That should be what StarFleet Academy gives you, a very wide breadth of ability to learn and to gain skills to be useful to the service.

Not everybody wants to become "Upper-Management", some do, some rather continue their field of speciality.
That's true in the Public/Private sector as well.
Nobody should be forced into Management. There's largely no point in that.

That's the future that I want to see depicted in StarFleet.

Starfleet is not a police force. And while we can spend all day arguing over what Starfleet is or isn't, one thing we can all agree on is that it is a shipping service, since they do work on ships. And those who work on ships need the officer and enlisted divide, with the officers being the ones in a supervisory role and the enlisted doing the actual grunt work. That's just logic.
That's a incredibly archaic British Model to raise your force on.
StarFleet and the UFP should move beyond that.
 
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