Does the current state of Star Trek say anything about what fans want?

[Oddish]

I think you're missing the key detail.

""woke" is supposed to mean "aware of inequalities in our society""

You're missing the part that "woke" implies the rest of the population is "asleep".

And this isn't just a clever play on words, it's quite literally the problem.

Let me be clear, "woke" as I determine it is not about diversity. I never had any issue with any Discovery characters. I only saw a bit of Adira, saw none of Gray. And as for Stamets and Culber, even though I knew by then that Disco wasn't my Trek flavor of choice, I made a special point of watching the episode where Culber was brought back. The creators of Trek felt that under Berman, the LGBT+ community had been underrepresented, and they wanted to fix that. And in any case, the other nu Treks all have diverse cast members. "Lower Decks" even has an LGBT lead.

The problem with whining about "wokeness" and being upset that "wokesters" think you're "asleep" is that it requires you to believe that institutional inequality does not embed itself into our society in ways that the majority does not always perceive.... in a world where the infant mortality rate for black folk is significantly higher than it is for white folk, and where we all have implicit biases we're not even always aware of.

Like, sorry dude, but sometimes we are biased in ways that are unfair and we deserve to be called out for

If a person feels that any sentiment I express is unfair, and chooses to discuss this with me politely, rationally, and non-abusively, I will consider their position, and any evidence they choose to share. I make no promises to adopt it, though.

However, if that same person responds with potty-words, insults, forced silencing, or other bullying tactics, I will not consider their position. Justify it as hate speech or any -ism or -phobia you want... in 1950, it was "un-American activities". The fiddlers might be on the opposite side of the political spectrum, but the dance is the same.

The reason I proudly declare myself "un-woke" is because in a world where accused witches are being burned, I would rather not associate myself with the people building the bonfires.

 

[Nerys Myk]

DISCO is all about hugs and support. GROUP HUG!!!!

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah. And especially under Captain Burnham, the Discovery is an extremely supportive, positive workplace. Captain Burnham is remarkably empathetic and compassionate, and she works hard to foster a mutually supportive work environment. And people's needs, including mental health needs, are respected.

That's the exact environment I work in and the type of supervisor I have. I'll take that.

 

[cooleddie74]

Wokeism = 0
Awkward but firm and assertive thread content = 2

We're winning, guys.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The way they adjusted the characters from STD to SNW is rather telling. They went back to form and it is working at least partially.

Did they? I see complaints about Ortegas' snark or Chapel's sass all the time. PIke's very laid back and relaxed with his crew, unlike Picard or even Kirk. The atmosphere isn't all that dissimilar to DISCO.

 

[cooleddie74]

It's basically DSC's crew dynamic transplated to the TOS ship. And it works.

As for sass and snark, people are quick to forget what smartasses McCoy and Scotty were in TOS and that series wasn't really all that different in terms of how the main officers got along.

 

[fireproof78]

Did they? I see complaints about Ortegas' snark or Chapel's sass all the time. PIke's very laid back and relaxed with his crew, unlike Picard or even Kirk. The atmosphere isn't all that dissimilar to DISCO.

Shhh...that's a secret.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's basically DSC's crew dynamic transplated to the TOS ship. And it works.

As for sass and snark, people are quick to forget what smartasses McCoy and Scotty were in TOS and that series wasn't really all that different in terms of how the main officers got along.

Kirk never cooks for them, though. Sisko probably does. Janeway might serve coffee. ( or maybe just keep all for herself)

 

[cooleddie74]

Although Kirk did like to dine in the recreation room with Spock and McCoy so to that extent he's a lot like Archer when he invited T'Pol and Trip to join him in the Captain's Mess for something to eat.

 

[fireproof78]

It's basically DSC's crew dynamic transplated to the TOS ship. And it works.

As for sass and snark, people are quick to forget what smartasses McCoy and Scotty were in TOS and that series wasn't really all that different in terms of how the main officers got along.

It's just rose tinted glasses. People sit there and lash out as DSC and SNW for unprofessional behavior and don't recall the times McCoy's snaps at Kirk, or Scotty talks back. They still get the job done though and Kirk states very simply he wants honesty. Seems to work out ok.

 

[cooleddie74]

Even Chekov gets occasional wiseass jabs at his superior officers. Everyone in the TOS main cast got to stir the pot with the other characters.

 

[fireproof78]

Even Chekov gets occasional wiseass jabs at his superior officers. Everyone in the TOS main cast got to stir the pot with the other characters.

Yup. That was the nature of TOS.

But, fandom often comes across like this:

 

[Oddish]

I still remember when a well regarded Trek writer said "I actually say through the whole first season of Deep Space 9, just for research purposes" or some such thing. Clearly the implication was that DS9 was so outré, it was only worthy of being viewed in small amounts, for research purposes. If it could be underappreciated, couldn't other Treks be as well?

 

[XCV330]

One day the inside tale of what happened when making Discovery will get told, and the tales probably won't all be the same, leading to faction picking, and arguments, because fans will be fanatic. It's built into their name. But the narrative about the narrative will become part of the story and there will be no way to look on it the same way again.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Even Chekov gets occasional wiseass jabs at his superior officers. Everyone in the TOS main cast got to stir the pot with the other characters.

His and Sulu's exchanges in "Amok Time" are pretty funny.

 

[Ovation]

DISCO is all about hugs and support. GROUP HUG!!!!

Jayson? Is that you?

 

[Chakoteya]

Janeway might serve coffee. ( or maybe just keep all for herself)

*Cough* Timeless *cough*

JANEWAY: Speaking of risks. Are you ready to try some home cooking?
CHAKOTAY: I'll alert Sickbay.

 

[Weyoun 251]

It’s a shame when good threads devolve into inane nonsense that makes me want to jump off a cliff.

Be careful saying that - you'll be considered erratic and overly emotional...certainly not conscientcious

 

[Qonundrum]

DISCO is all about hugs and support. GROUP HUG!!!!

And sippin' tea!

No, not ordering it from the replicator but burbling in a syrupy log entry about actually sipping it with that hokey corny trite pseudo-relaxing voice that's just incredibly facetious and haughty. (TNG season 1 had a certain sense of haughtiness and phoniness from characters at times and "fast food restaurant worker cliquishness" as well; little did I ever expect any show made later to do the proverbial gag of "hold my beer". Kudos for trying, I guess... )

There's one thing in trying different formats and styles and none of the series is limited to just what detracts, but for all the times Trek screwed up in feel before, not since "Okona" and a handful of TNG season 5-7 episodes, was I laughing AT the show and not with it. Which is still better than being nonplussed or apathetic about it... at least for scenes that descend to that level of artificial saccharine.

The idea of emotional support and camaraderie is one thing. That's why TNG had Troi and Guinan, and how Kirk was able to keep Spock and McCoy from beating each other up to death. The excesses DSC went to, from what I still remember, makes "fingers on a chalkboard" sound like symphonic music by comparison.

 

[Dukhat]

It's basically DSC's crew dynamic transplated to the TOS ship. And it works.

As for sass and snark, people are quick to forget what smartasses McCoy and Scotty were in TOS and that series wasn't really all that different in terms of how the main officers got along.

There’s a difference between McCoy & Scotty being smartasses, and Ortegas being a smartass. For the former, that wasn’t their primary character trait. For the latter, it seems like the character’s sole purpose for existence is to fly the ship and be snarky for no real discernible reason. At least with Tom Paris, we got a backstory as to why he acts the way he does.

Now with that said, if Ortegas was developed better, then perhaps she would be more palatable as a character. As it stands now, she’s pretty forgettable. I get that there’s only so much time in a 10 episode season to focus on every character in the show, but it’s obvious that of all the main characters (Pike, Una, Spock, Uhura, M’Benga, Chapel, La’an, Hemmer, and Ortegas), she’s the one getting the shortest shrift.