What story elements would you remove or just forget exist from canon?
- Thread starter Citiprime
- Start date
According to Google, religion is belief in a superhuman power, especially a god(s). And, generally, acting on that belief in some way. If you believe in God, but you play golf on Sundays, then it seems more a belief than a religion.
That's why I don't regard atheism as a religion, despite firmly believing that it is a faith.
Vulcan philosophy, simply put, is understanding that a person's actions should be governed by logic (the greater good for the greater number), not emotion. That doesn't make them emotionless, but it's easy to see them as such. Take Tuvok's decision in "Resolutions". Janeway's orders aside, he had to choose between risking the lives of 150 people by contacting the Vidiians, or leaving behind two people who were stranded but safe. Logically, it's a simple choice.
Maybe we could have planets shaped like top hats?
Google is mistaken. As the anthropologist Clifford Geertz said in 1993, religion is "a system of symbols which acts to establish powerful, pervasive and long-lasting moods and motivations in men by formulating conceptions of a general order of existence and clothing these conceptions with such an aura of factuality that the moods and motivations seem uniquely realistic."
Has the warp speed damaging space thing from STNG season 7 already been mentioned?
That gobbledygook could also be applied to other things that humans value, including but not limited to patriotism, honor, duty, virtue, philosophy, morality, and even family.
Multiple times in multiple topics, by me among others.
I mean not to be a smart Alec but there are non-theistic religions. Though unlike the Klingon religion they don't include literal god killing.
So belief in a deity or deities is not necessary for something to be a religion.
Imagine if you were really into this old TV show. You could recite the opening narration and all you favorite lines, you have various relics, er, collectibles around your house, you argue principles and dogma with other scholars. There might be schisms, people might identify with different denominations, er, series. There might even be a... what's the word? CANON? You can even tell people that if they have certain OTHER "beliefs" that they are excommun-- I mean "not a real fan".
I mean, hypothetically.
What a strange hypothetical world...
SACRILEGE! HERESY! BLASPHEMY! YOU'RE LUCKY I DON'T CAST YOU OUT, OR SMITE YOU, OR SOMETHING ....
<regains control>
Err, that is to say, nope. Your hypothesis is just too far out. Never happen.
<regains control>
Err, that is to say, nope. Your hypothesis is just too far out. Never happen.
It is not gobbledygook. It makes perfect sense.
Yes! That is the point. Honor, duty, virtue, philosophy, morality, and family are all parts of most religions! And arguably patriotism/nationalism is indeed a kind of religion! Religion is, indeed, much more than a system of beliefs about the supernatural. Consider Confucianism, for instance!
Yes, it can, because there are other things, other systems of belief, that people "believe in" for which there isn't a lot of objective evidence for their existence. The existence of God is just the one that people love to argue about.
For example, inalienable rights. Which elements on the periodic table make up an inalienable right? Those rights exist because enough people believe they exist and buy in to the concept, but trying to prove that those rights are inherent to existence is an article of faith as much as any religious belief.
I can direct you to a pertinent George Carlin sketch if you would like. He had opinions.
I prefer Robert Heinlein's diatribe on it in Starship Troopers.
That was promptly forgotten by the franchise anyway.
“All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."
REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.
"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"
YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.
"So we can believe the big ones?"
YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
"They're not the same at all!"
YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.
"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"
MY POINT EXACTLY.”
- Hogfather by Terry Pratchett
I don't see it that way. I see it as recognizing how powerful the human imagination is and how much we need meaning in our lives.
Arguably, Pratchett's view of religion aligns with Roddenberry's and Trek's secular humanist philosophy.
The gods and aspects of reality in Pratchett's Discworld are all equally fake and inherently powerless, and only become "real" when people believe in them.
In Pratchett's universe, as in Trek, the only true source of power is humanity's ability to come together and shape our reality in what we believe about our world and what we want for it.
With the implicit acknowledgement that without us there isn't any.
What thread is this again? Something something coffee...
