Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x03 - "Seventeen Seconds"

[Ometiklan]

So for me, this episode got a 9. Loved that the changelings are back! But wasn't 100% impressed with the changeling transformation special effects. To me it looked almost like a downgrade from the old 90s effects.

While some of the dialogue could have used a little more polish, I really liked all of the scenes between characters on the Titan. Some of Worf and Raffi's dialogue (while very cool) was a little stilted - more link mini-monologues than a real dialogue, but still cool.

One thing I think this show is having problems with (which I noticed SNW having the same problem with), is getting the exterior ship shots to line up with the dialogue. In the last episode Picard doesn't understand what happened when the Eleos was thrown at the Titan, when it should have been perfectly clear. In this one, some of the ships moving around weren't exactly sync'd with the dialogue. Like after the first time, LaForge should have easily been able to avoid the portal. I know Trek ships don't move like fighters, but she slowly accelerates away from the Shrike the second time and slowly heads right toward the portal. There just is a little disconnect between the visuals and script.

Wow. That Changeling's work ethic is supreme. It kept its shape right up until the very end! And why it didn't change into something else whilst being pursued escapes me...

My guess is he was trying to blame that human he had replicated and didn't want to change. Also, Worf implies he has been away from the link for a long time, maybe long enough to be not as good at shapeshifting so he can't change easily or quickly.

...Meanwhile, Raffi and Worf are getting shit done and have an actual plot that propels them. Of course we don't see them necessarily being competent - Worf just magically has the answer all along - but at least they're not incompetent...

Worf didn't magically have the answer all along, he got it from the padd that Rafi took from the Ferengi. I missed it the first time as well. I thought she had risked her life for nothing since the Ferengi was killed. But watching it a second time, i realized she did learn that there was another involved party other than the Ferengi and the Romulan, and I saw her grab at the padd as she was falling to the ground while Work killed guys. So that is where they got the info on the contact.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

The valuable $thing stolen from Daystrom is obviously Lore - but I wonder why the Changlings (I imagine these two storylines are intertwined) would want him.

It could also be the data cube containing Moriarty.

Something I thought of that would be weird. What if Vadic was a hologram? And they were baiting Picard because he's an android and they're wanting to replicate his body and download Vadic and some other holograms into android bodies? Hell, Jack could be an android too for all we know. Maybe Picard and Beverly's real human son died and Beverly downloaded his consciousness into an android body, and that's why Vadic is so obsessed with Jack

What if Vadic was the offspring of Moriarty and Countess Barthalomew

 

[firehawk12]

Worf didn't magically have the answer all along, he got it from the padd that Rafi took from the Ferengi. I missed it the first time as well. I thought she had risked her life for nothing since the Ferengi was killed. But watching it a second time, i realized she did learn that there was another involved party other than the Ferengi and the Romulan, and I saw her grab at the padd as she was falling to the ground while Work killed guys. So that is where they got the info on the contact.

Ah, definitely missed that then. Although why would Sneed just keep that information lying around on the equivalent of his phone is another question that we don't need to look too deeply into. lol

 

[CrellMoset]

Ah, definitely missed that then. Although why would Sneed just keep that information lying around on the equivalent of his phone is another question that we don't need to look too deeply into. lol

Maybe in case he needed to apply Rule of Acquisition #61: Never underestimate the power of bribery.

 

[Cr0sis21]

While browsing the Picard hashtag on twitter, I came across someone live tweeting the Picard panel on some Star Trek Cruise. They said Marina Sirtis seemed displeased with her character arc this season and that she said she never wanted to play a mother on TV. I'm guessing that means she's probably unhappy with how much of Troi's story is tied up in being a mom and wife.

Guess that could also explain why she hasn't been out there promoting the show and basically been absent from the promo.

I'm on that cruise, and was at that panel. There are a lot of things Sirtis seems bitter about. At the various panels throughout the week she came across as very bitter and unhappy. She made sure to also point out she hated doing video game voiceovers for STO and says she's never played a video game because she has a life.

Eek.

 

[Paul755]

9/10

Some will see this as blasphemy but Worf and Raffi already have more chemistry together than Seven and Raffi. They have this “buddy cop” dynamic that so far is working great. In S2 Seven and Raffi were more like bickering sisters or shipmates that only kinda got along. Not lovers. And it was grating.

I’m curious to see what’s wrong with Riker. The hints about trouble with Deanna and now he’s gun shy, running scared like a deer in headlights once he’s given command. I wonder if we are gonna find out that this isn’t the real Will Riker but a “great link” changling or Section 31 agent Tom Riker.

The coldness he treats Picard with there at the end. Man…good stuff.

Shaw…I mean…this poor fuckin guy…I know he’s an ass but Picard, Riker and Seven basically hijack his ship, get him into a fire fight with a far superior ship and now he gets blowed up and put on deaths doorstep. He already had some kind of psychological issue…dude is gonna get sent to the funny farm after this.

Everything with Jack feels forced and Beverly comes off bad to me here in not telling Picard. At least Carol told Jim that David existed. Bev’s justification is basically the same as Carols except for the fact Picard did end up retired and gathering dust on the vineyard. And then she sends him to school in London. Geeze lady.

I’m excited to see Changlings as the big bad because it really increases our chances of going to DS9.

 

[Orac Zen]

Bloody hell. How good was that??

Until I watch it again, these are my impressions:

The negative - not much. Vadic is still too over the top for my liking, but perhaps it's just me. Scenery-chewing gets a bit tedious after a while. It would also be good to know exactly why she's so keen to get Jack. A motive would be good, sooner rather than later.

Speaking of motives... As one of the dozen or so people on the planet who much preferred DS9 before it became The Dominion Show I'm not exactly thrilled to see the Changelings put in a reappearance. One of the things I disliked about them was their rather ridiculous motive which (as far as I could tell) amounted to nothing more than "The solids hate us because we're different, so let's kill them all". I didn't find that even slightly interesting so hopefully these terrorist Changelings will be an improvement.

The positive - Worf. The bit where he rattled off his "son of" stuff, followed by "I have made chamomile tea. Do you take sugar?" made me laugh so much I missed a few following lines of dialogue. Priceless. He and Raffi make an interesting pair; I look forward to seeing more of their investigation.

My indifference to Changelings aside, I really, really liked the subtle Odo reference (well, I presume Worf was referring to Odo).

Sidney LaForge. More of her, please. Much more.

Jack being useful and working out how Vadic was tracking them. The Jack / Riker conversation was excellent, too.

Off the charts brilliance - the Beverly / Picard conversation. Ship's business aside, they have never communicated properly and that was brought out really well in their discussion. I have no doubt that when I read the rest of the thread views will be pretty polarised, but for mine they both had very valid viewpoints. Of course Picard had the right to know about Jack (the fact Beverly told Jack who his father was and left it up to him to establish contact was good). Of course Beverly wanted to protect her child - she'd already lost (hubby) Jack and Wesley, and Picard himself (as far as she knew). I don't have kids but I completely understand her wanting to hang onto the only thing she had left after having lost so much already. No one is right or wrong in this - it's down to their inability to communicate. Picard had always been so adamant about not wanting a family. Would he magically have changed his mind if Beverly had told him? Who knows? How was she to know? She should have told him but I genuinely get why she didn't.

It was a well-written scene and McFadden and Stewart absolutely sold it. The benefits of completely inhabiting characters for decades and having excellent material to work with were well and truly on show here. Frakes' direction in general, but that scene especially, was excellent. He's damned good.

Must watch it again. In the meantime, I'll see what everyone else thought of it. Hope the rest of the season is as good as this.

 

[Borgminister]

Another 10 from me... nice moments between a butt hurt Picard and maternally protective Beverly, and buddy-buddy turned confrontational moments between Riker and Picard... I also like the Raffi-Worf dynamic, and find myself wondering if they could join Georgieau as part of a Section 31 vehicle, since they are all on the periphery of the wholesome Starfleet facade. And to remain spoiler-free and be nicely surprised by the Changeling storyline... How Moriarti and Lore fit into all of this will be fascinating to see. Here's hoping that cost-cutting at Paramount won't erode any Trek offerings, especially given the truncated seasons of any one show.

Forget Taco Tuesdays... I'm all in for Beheading Wednesdays!

 

[RuleofAcuisition17]

Worf must have meant Odo, it's just odd that he didn't say it

I would like to see Odo again, I feel a recast could be done well and they could say that Odo perfected the human face and now looks like whoever the new actor playing him looks like.

It'd be like recasting Aaron Eisenberg. Both him and Rene were very much beloved on and off screen. I think it'd leave a funny taste in the mouth if we had another actor in either role. Especially with their current "significance" potentially in other, related media. Anything not what's basically in Star Trek Online to Aaron might feel like a downgrade or disservice.

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Once again, loved the episode, the characters feel far more like themselves than they did in previous seasons, including Seven. Good reveals all round.

Good to see Worf has worked on a sense of humour in the last 20 years.

 

[Saul]

I'm honestly surprised that Starfleet didn't make blood testing or phaser sweeps for changelings routine even after the war.

I imagine people wouldn't have patience with that for the long term. Kinda reflects today's world and covid restrictions.

To a large degree Riker is ultimately to blame. Picard was just an old man who went to him for help.

That scene kinda reminded me of All Good Things. Picard the old man getting in Riker's way.

BTW, I loved the flashback scene they had but thought they could have done something with Stewart's voice as he sounds as old as he does now.

 

[Yistaan]

It'd be like recasting Aaron Eisenberg. Both him and Rene were very much beloved on and off screen. I think it'd leave a funny taste in the mouth if we had another actor in either role. Especially with their current "significance" potentially in other, related media. Anything not what's basically in Star Trek Online to Aaron might feel like a downgrade or disservice.

========================

Once again, loved the episode, the characters feel far more like themselves than they did in previous seasons, including Seven. Good reveals all round.

Good to see Worf has worked on a sense of humour in the last 20 years.

I think if Remy Auberjonois, who has a strong resemblance to his father, took the role it would work out well enough. Just ditch the makeup and say this is what Odo looks like now, as he always wanted to get a human's face right.

 

[NCC-73515]

I'm on that cruise, and was at that panel. There are a lot of things Sirtis seems bitter about. At the various panels throughout the week she came across as very bitter and unhappy. She made sure to also point out she hated doing video game voiceovers for STO and says she's never played a video game because she has a life.

Eek.

She's always a bit wild. At one con years ago, someone in the audience wanted to ask a question and introduced himself, adding he was from Japan. She screamed "You're killing the dolphins!!!".
Yes, killing dolphins is wrong. But this poor guy very likely has nothing to do with it. She's been like that for a long time, I think.

So for me, this episode got a 9. Loved that the changelings are back! But wasn't 100% impressed with the changeling transformation special effects. To me it looked almost like a downgrade from the old 90s effects.
(...)
Like after the first time, LaForge should have easily been able to avoid the portal. I know Trek ships don't move like fighters, but she slowly accelerates away from the Shrike the second time and slowly heads right toward the portal. There just is a little disconnect between the visuals and script.

Now whenever someone takes a sample, they can just use root beer. No more miraculous goo, just ...sewage

It's particularly odd that Titan with its MANY impulse engines, which are supposed to have the very purpose of increased maneuverability (did Matalas say that? One of them did, IIRC) doesn't use this advantage. Maybe it'll occur to them later: Oh wait, we have all these engines, how about using them?

 

[Yistaan]

She's always a bit wild. At one con years ago, someone in the audience wanted to ask a question and introduced himself, adding he was from Japan. She screamed "You're killing the dolphins!!!".
Yes, killing dolphins is wrong. But this poor guy very likely has nothing to do with it. She's been like that for a long time, I think.

Whoa I did not know that about Sirtis. She sounds like she's losing it as far as mental health to be honest, very disturbing and friends/family should probably intervene... For her to tell a Japanese fan that he's "killing dolphins" just because he's from Japan when 99% chance he has absolutely nothing to do with that is basically a racist statement in my own opinion as an Asian myself. Yes she's a VIP guest but I would hope that some convention organizer took her aside and had a talk after that. If I'm ever at a convention I don't think I'll be lining up to meet her...

 

[JoeZhang]

By the way this episode confirmed Bev had no special knowledge about the bad guys - so in episode 1 she turns the phaser up to full and makes sure there is nothing left I guess because she really likes to do that.

 

[Yistaan]

By the way this episode confirmed Bev had no special knowledge about the bad guys - so in episode 1 she turns the phaser up to full and makes sure there is nothing left I guess because she really likes to do that.

You think a medical doctor who fought in the Dominion War would recognize changeling biology, but then McCoy claimed not to know Klingon biology in Star Trek 6 despite fighting Klingons every other week in his career so...

 

[Orac Zen]

Also, I love this older wiser calmer Worf very much. He is delightful and kind of hot.

"Kind of" hot? Waaaaaaaaaay hotter than that.

I would like to see Odo again, I feel a recast could be done well and they could say that Odo perfected the human face and now looks like whoever the new actor playing him looks like.

No, thanks. Auberjonois was the character. In some future where everyone is recast...maybe. But not here and now.

My only gripe is the "Remove yourself from the bridge, you've killed us all." from Riker. Not only is that unfair seeing as he gave the order to fire, but to basically admit defeat in front of your entire bridge crew was in really horrible form. I guess I can buy that Riker just isn't the guy he was on the Enterprise-D anymore but still...that was rough.

This didn't really sit well with me, either. It'll be interesting to see if Riker's attitude is addressed and what the reasons for this outburst might be. I certainly hope it's nothing as ridiculous as him being a changeling or something equally trite.

Honestly see both sides of the Crusher and Picard argument. I think Crusher holds a lot of trauma which started with her parents then to Jack and Wesley…she couldn’t have that life anymore. That doesn’t mean she should have kept Jack from Picard but I can see where her response was driven from.

Completely agree with this.

I watch for characterization and character connections far more than ships and space battles.

I like all your post, but I'm highlighting this bit because that's why I watch Trek, too.

 

[Sketcher]

.This didn't really sit well with me, either. It'll be interesting to see if Riker's attitude is addressed and what the reasons for this outburst might be. I certainly hope it's nothing as ridiculous as him being a changeling or something equally trite.

I assumed it was just the stress of being thrust into command in a life-threatening situation with Picard badgering him with suggestions every five minutes. I mean really both Picard and Riker haven't been in command of anything in a while. Well, Riker was, but he also had an entire armada backing him. It's the classic TMP Kirk vs Decker trope. Except this time they're both more like Kirk trying to grapple with a new ship and years spent without a chair.

 

[Skipper]

the maneuver of a desperate man. he's a diplomat, not a tactician.

A lot of times they explained to us what a good tactician Picard is (i.e. in Peak Performance). My point is we never saw on screen something corroborating this.

 

[Yistaan]

A lot of times they explained to us what a good tactician Picard is (i.e. in Peak Performance). My point is we never saw on screen something corroborating this.

It's a Trek thing. Q&A (which takes place just before the Cage) says that Pike was the most heavily decorated fighting captain in Starfleet. Strange New Worlds doesn't really seem to corroborate this, and we're not even clear who Pike was beating up in the years before the Cage anyway.

Also as he had just become captain in 2250, 4 years before Q&A, those years must've been some violent ones for the Enterprise.

 

[Search4]

Ok I’m calling it now. Moriarity is the “big bad” and wants Picardo’s android body - so he’s after his son (captured and alive) and other shipmates as a negotiating position.