Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x02 - "Disengage"

[wayoung]

My bad I thought they entirely cut him out and that Wheaton himself confirmed after his cameo in Picard season 2 that Wesley's appearance at the wedding was officially not canon.

Edit:. I misunderstood, Wesley as a Starfleet officer was de canonized, his appearance wasn't.

I will also add, because I know this to be true, this is an official Star Trek declaration: the piece of Wesley in Star Trek: Nemesis in the stuff that’s been cut from the movie is not canonical. Very important… The impression that a certain amount of fandom has that Wesley is a lieutenant about to serve on the Titan is not canonical because it was cut from the movie

https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2022...-crusher-isnt-canon-in-star-trek-nemesis/amp/

 

[JoeZhang]

No his words are that he's a "lieutenant about to serve on Titan" are not canon because that is part of a cut-scene. Nothing says Wesley is not in Starfleet at this point and WW does not say that.

The only canon information we have is that Wesley is attending a wedding in the dress uniform of a Starfleet officer.

There in absence of other information we can only conclude he is in Starfleet at this point. Why or for how long we have no idea.

 

[wayoung]

No his words are that he's a "lieutenant about to serve on Titan" are not canon because that is part of a cut-scene. Nothing says Wesley is not in Starfleet at this point and WW does not say that.

The only canon information we have is that Wesley is attending a wedding in the dress uniform of a Starfleet officer.

There in absence of other information we can only conclude he is in Starfleet at this point. Why or for how long we have no idea.

So Wesley really wanted to be at this moment. He knows that this moment happens. He knows every moment that happens. It’s just part of the terrible knowledge that comes with being a Traveler guy, I guess. And Wesley made a choice: How will they expect me to appear? What will make them comfortable? If I show up as a god-being, it’s going make everything weird and make it all about me and I don’t want it to be that. If I just show up as like a lieutenant… that sounds like a thing that would make sense. Sure, let’s do that. But I get to be at the wedding of my very closest friends and family and I get to see them

- Wil Wheaton

 

[Danja]

No his words are that he's a "lieutenant about to serve on Titan" are not canon because that is part of a cut-scene. Nothing says Wesley is not in Starfleet at this point and WW does not say that.

The only canon information we have is that Wesley is attending a wedding in the dress uniform of a Starfleet officer.

There in absence of other information we can only conclude he is in Starfleet at this point. Why or for how long we have no idea.

After zooming in on the picture with my tablet, he's wearing a lieutenant j.g.'s pips.

 

[JoeZhang]

- Wil Wheaton

As he note that’s his head canon. It’s not on screen so should be disregarded like the cut scene in the way you mentioned we should above - right? That’s the principle you are applying.

 

[wayoung]

Right as he note that’s his head canon. It’s not on screen so should be disregarded like the cut scene.

You quoted me and said Wil Wheaton does not say Crusher is not in Starfleet in Nemesis. I replied quoting Wil Wheaton saying Crusher was not in Starfleet.

 

[JoeZhang]

You quoted me and said Wil Wheaton does not say Crusher is not in Starfleet in Nemesis. I replied quoting Wil Wheaton saying Crusher was not in Starfleet.

well I guess the only answer is to go off canon - Wes was at that wedding in a Starfleet Uniform and wearing the pips of a junior officer.

 

[wayoung]

well I guess the only answer is to go off canon - Wes was at that wedding in a Starfleet Uniform and wearing the pips of a junior officer.

Canon is a two second clip of him in a Starfleet uniform. Not that he is in Starfleet. It isn't said he's in Starfleet anywhere, hence Wheaton's explanation.

Star Trek has retconned a lot bigger things than that.

 

[jaime]

His God clothes arrive on Tuesday.

 

[fireproof78]

well I guess the only answer is to go off canon - Wes was at that wedding in a Starfleet Uniform and wearing the pips of a junior officer.

Well, current US military regulations allow for wearing of the dress uniform for veterans under special circumstances. Why not Starfleet?

 

[JoeZhang]

I guess the only explanation is he’s what we in the UK call a “walt” - never did his proper service but likes to dress up in uniforms and rank pips he’s not entitled to - shameful .

 

[JoeZhang]

Well, current US military regulations allow for wearing of the dress uniform for veterans under special circumstances. Why not Starfleet?

Didn’t he technically desert his post? More dishonour!

edit: actually wasn’t he still a cadet when he ran off? So an even bigger Walt that we thought.

Turns up to a services wedding as a deserter wearing a uniform he has no entitlement to and pips he has no right to. A bigger fraud than first thought !

Maybe out of shame Bev and Picard just pretend it never happened hence the conversation in this Episode...

 

[fireproof78]

Didn’t he technically desert his post? More dishonour!

Is he a Klingon now?

Since cadets are shown to carry rank at a point in their training he could be wearing the uniform of his last position before resignation.

 

[JoeZhang]

Is he a Klingon now?

Since cadets are shown to carry rank at a point in their training he could be wearing the uniform of his last position before resignation.

I don’t want to talk about the coward and traitor Wesley Crusher anymore - no wonder he doesn’t show his face anymore!

 

[fireproof78]

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[Ometiklan]

Why does she need to face consequences from an outside force? She could just as easily have to manage it internally.

There is no need there to my mind. Star Trek is supposedly grown up enough (or so people tell me) to let audiences be able to actually think for themselves without spelling out all moral lessons.

I don't think she has to have anything be imposed from an outside source. She could just deal with it internally. But I would have liked to see some dealing with it. As it was left, Picard - an absolute moralist - argued against the theoretical action, but Seven a more practical, "efficient" actor, decided to kill her. Now that it is a reality and not just theoretical how do the characters feel? In the longer term does Seven still agree with it? Does Picard ever learn of it, or did he kind of know she was going to do it when she not-so-slyly asked to borrow some weapons? Does the fact that she hid her intentions from Picard affect her relationship with him?
And Trek doesn't need to pontificate about it either. I too appreciate it when they discuss, explore, and present evidence and arguments about a scenario, but leave the ultimate conclusion up to the viewer. That could have been what we had here, instead it is just never discussed or referenced again.

But of course, real Star Trek is mature enough that it is subtle and doesn't shove answers down the throats of the viewers, letting them draw their own conclusions, but at the same time, it is also a morality play in the best traditions of the Hays code days where the good answer is always blatantly telegraphed, propriety is always rewarded and impropriety is always punished within the narrative as soon as possible, becase God forbid the viewers accidentally draw the wrong conclusion.

note, above, re: presenting arguments and letting the viewer decide. (my preference)

Regarding Seven killing Bejayzl...

Not only did she mutilate and kill countless former Borg, but she had no remorse about it and certainly did more horrible things. And she was going to continue doing so. There was no legal recourse to punish her because that area of space was lawless. Seven vaporizing her was really the only option.

And frankly, she had it coming.

Some will argue that killing for revenge is a bad thing, and I agree for the most part. But just because a horrible person was killed in revenge doesn't automatically mean it wasn't the right thing to do.

But how do these two characters with opposing viewpoints feel about or deal with the results of this decision? If this is supposed to be a serialized show where decisions have consequences and can't just be ignored by warping off to next week's crisis, I would like to see some of those consequences.

Someone mentioned in this thread (I think it was was Ed 209) that Seven was character assassinated in season 1. I disagree.

Using her killing Bejayzl as an example, she took an action that was efficient and worked for a greater good, like her defying Janeway and sending Species 8472 to the Hirogen in "PREY".

I think they made her fairly consistent, but different enough to be believable because 20 years have passed. 20 years worth of experiences can and will change you.

If anyone is character assassinated on this show, it's Beverly. Certainly right now.

Yeah, Seven can be very direct.

 

[fireproof78]

That could have been what we had here, instead it is just never discussed or referenced again.

Yup, and mileage will vary if it's good or not.

I think it is. I think it is one of those things that could be revisited, but not necessarily. I think leaving it ambiguous, without the moralizing or speechifying, is a strength to this specific season. Ultimately, you have to decide, not the character as an avatar for the writer.

 

[Ometiklan]

Yup, and mileage will vary if it's good or not.

I think it is. I think it is one of those things that could be revisited, but not necessarily. I think leaving it ambiguous, without the moralizing or speechifying, is a strength to this specific season. Ultimately, you have to decide, not the character as an avatar for the writer.

I think it would have been best to deal with it in season 1 or at least in season 2 (there was plenty of time to fill in that season). There were other things that I would have liked to see explore more, like Seven being tempted by the role of Borg Queen, more follow-up from having most of the Borg being ejected into space, or the Artifact crash landing on the android planet...
Picard doing something more to resolve his relationship with Elnor, beyond Elnor just adopting a new, more hopeless cause...
plenty of dropped plot lines.

 

[fireproof78]

I think it would have been best to deal with it in season 1 or at least in season 2 (there was plenty of time to fill in that season).

They had no idea there would be a season 2.

 

[Ometiklan]

They had no idea there would be a season 2.

Except they planned from the start for a 3 season show...
But regardless of that, while they were writing the second season, they could have addressed that or any of the other dropped plot points from season 1, if they cared to. But they didn't. I don't know if it is the change of showrunners each season, or the change in writers, or what, but they have kind of done a soft reboot each season. (A little like Discovery, at least in DIS s2 and S3, and maybe S5?) Season 3 has probably the best callbacks and references to the events and fallout from the previous two seasons, and that is even with Matalas apparently having already planned out this season story before Picard was even a show - so by that measure alone he has done a great job of integrating the previous seasons' stuff. (Don't need any totally disregarding of previous story points ala "The Rise of Skywalker" in Trek.)