Sorry forgot to add quotes
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x02 - "Disengage"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Hope Jack Crusher don't end up like David Marcus
To me, Plummer's acting conveyed a sense that Vadic was enjoying herself. I think Vadic likes having power over the Titan and likes the "hunt". Vadic was basically toying with her prey. It was a delightful performance. But we will see more of her motivations later. So I am hoping it all comes into focus later in the season.
Shaw did seem to be a bit genre savvy in that he kept giving Picard an opportunity to pull a rabbit out of his hat before the deadline rather than sending Jack over the second he found out he actually was a wanted man. Apparently, he may not like cowboys, but he recognizes their utility when you've got an out-of-control cattle herd.
Picard's robo-body came up a couple times in season 2 (Q pointed out that, in a bizarre and pointless coincidence, evil-Picard had also had his mind downloaded into an android body, and Rios complained to the ICE officer that his boss got turned into a robot but no one explained to him how that made sense).
Section 31 should be the laughingstock of the galaxy for anyone who's heard of them after it was revealed the head of Starfleet Intelligence was a Romulan spy, who'd been in the service since Data was discovered, personally sabotaged an android army and sent them on a terrorist attack that killed millions on the doorstep of the Federation capital and rendered an entire planet uninhabitable, and still no one realized until she ducked out for lunch early one day to assume personal, public command of a fleet of warbirds flying out to raze another planet.
Why even bother having an amoral, ultra-secret cabal unhindered by the rule of law if they're going to completely miss that Starfleet was basically co-opted by the Manchurian Candidate for fifteen years? The Oh scandal should've been 31's one big shot to prove the utility of rummaging through every Federation citizen's trash looking for disloyalty and sedition, interrogating on a whim and assassinating on suspicion is needed to preserve freedom and democracy and rokeg blood pie for the little people who believe ideals are real, but, instead, they didn't even notice the most spectacular crime of the millennium had occurred right under their noses for fifteen years. And Raffi, some rando analyst with the legitimate intelligence agency, had already figured half of it out for them!
It's not having the kid, it's the keeping Picard in the dark about him. That's a significant violation of trust, and it's going to take some very good writing to make why Beverly's kept that secret for the last 20 years or so believable, let alone in character. Right now, I've got my doubts if they can pull it off.
Except that's not what Section 31 does.
They are external intelligence, not internal.
I can probably excuse Beverly more easily than others might. She has already lost one child. Maybe she decided this child was going to be only hers, guided by her evolving ethos. The Picard-Crusher love affair appears to have been vastly overrated. She may be as disillusioned with Starfleet due to the Romulan refugee crisis as Picard was and also angry with him. Life with Jean-Luc Picard and Starfleet involved considerable danger, though it doesn’t sound like Beverly raised her son to lead a quiet life. If she wanted safety, life on Picard’s vineyard in France would have provided that.
When did Picard's synth body come up? I missed that.
I believe Vadic mentioned it in her villain monologue.
She seems to know way too much in general. She dropped that she knew about Shaw's psych profile as well. She must either have a mole within Starfleet, or have some ex-Starfleet folks within her orbit.
Eh...In a way, I guess so. technically, Picard was the one who convinced Beverly about Wesley being connected to the Traveller and he's now apparently no longer goes by Wesley Crusher....
But I don't think it's that well written. Too much fanwank. What would Shaw have done if Janeway was with them?
I'm not sure the timing works on that. If Beverly went no-contact twenty years ago as of this season, I think that would still predate the attack on the Mars shipyards and Picard's disappointment with Starfleet's actions. Regardless, I don't think it matters if JL and Beverly were ever in love or not, keeping the knowledge of someone's child from them is still an enormously hurtful thing to do. Of course the writers have come up with reasons for why she did it (if that is indeed what happened), it's just a matter of whether or not they ring true.
From the future, or has information from the future, as she seemed to time Picard's response in the end...?
First impressions (Not a lot of time this morning):
1. Better than the first episode.
2. Love the downcast look Bev gives JL at their first meeting. Of course, this still doesn't necessarily mean Jack is his son in any sort of conventional, biological sense. If she is willing to vaporize enemies willy nilly to protect Jack, it's not a stretch at all to think she would deceive JL in order to save him.
3. Worf's bad-ass arrival would have been much more so if the fight had been at all visible. Blurry, shaky-cam seen from the floor does not cut it. I get that it was supposed to be Raffi's point of view, but c'mon, man! The audience ain't Raffi!
4. Shaw still appears mentally unstable and unfit for command. The negative attitude he exudes on his bridge is, again, pure poison.
5. WTF does Riker think he's up to injecting a sick bay patient with anything? Did he go to medical school in the past few years and not tell anyone? The doctor should have been body blocking him while the EMH injected HIM with a tranq! Utter BS.
6. There are a LOT of TWOK parallels happening here. Vadik is Khan-like, and although Titan isn't shot to hell she also has a clear upper-hand. The starfield during the opening title, the end-chase into the nebula, and Jack is obviously a combination of David Marcus AND the Genesis Device, in that he is the MacGuffin the baddies want. Bev, after a twenty year absence and no contact with the crew, becomes a Carol Marcus figure.
Anyway, more later if I think of anything and have a chance to read through some replies.
1. Better than the first episode.
2. Love the downcast look Bev gives JL at their first meeting. Of course, this still doesn't necessarily mean Jack is his son in any sort of conventional, biological sense. If she is willing to vaporize enemies willy nilly to protect Jack, it's not a stretch at all to think she would deceive JL in order to save him.
3. Worf's bad-ass arrival would have been much more so if the fight had been at all visible. Blurry, shaky-cam seen from the floor does not cut it. I get that it was supposed to be Raffi's point of view, but c'mon, man! The audience ain't Raffi!
4. Shaw still appears mentally unstable and unfit for command. The negative attitude he exudes on his bridge is, again, pure poison.
5. WTF does Riker think he's up to injecting a sick bay patient with anything? Did he go to medical school in the past few years and not tell anyone? The doctor should have been body blocking him while the EMH injected HIM with a tranq! Utter BS.
6. There are a LOT of TWOK parallels happening here. Vadik is Khan-like, and although Titan isn't shot to hell she also has a clear upper-hand. The starfield during the opening title, the end-chase into the nebula, and Jack is obviously a combination of David Marcus AND the Genesis Device, in that he is the MacGuffin the baddies want. Bev, after a twenty year absence and no contact with the crew, becomes a Carol Marcus figure.
Anyway, more later if I think of anything and have a chance to read through some replies.
I think Jack Jr. is the cover for his mom and she's the one who has been wheelin' & dealin' behind the scenes.
She's the Mastermind and he's the face of it all.
Captain Shaw doesn't seemed to all that loved by his crew, when Admiral Picard took over not one of the bridge crew objected and they were all very quick to follow his order.
Plus every time he ranted at Seven on the bridge, the looks shown from the crew were more in sympathy than agreement.
Shaw is coming across like a mix of Captain Queeg and Captain Quint.
She's the Mastermind and he's the face of it all.
Captain Shaw doesn't seemed to all that loved by his crew, when Admiral Picard took over not one of the bridge crew objected and they were all very quick to follow his order.
Plus every time he ranted at Seven on the bridge, the looks shown from the crew were more in sympathy than agreement.
Shaw is coming across like a mix of Captain Queeg and Captain Quint.
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The Tal Shiar taking over Starfleet feels pretty external to me. The very first time we saw them, Sloan was all over Bashir about being a Dominion spy, so it's not like they're unaware of the concept of "counter-espionage."
Funny you mentioned Andor. I watched it when each episode dropped. I enjoyed it, but each episode to me felt very disjointed. I wondered if it would be better binged. So far I am enjoying this Picard season way more. I really do wish the streaming companies would just drop all episodes at once. I binged Disco S1 and loved it and the most recent season which was good. But every other trek I have been watching as each episode dropped, and they are not as good. S1 and S2 Picard were rough. SNW was very good though, but it is episodic trek like from the 90s.
Jack refers to the Eleos as a Mariposa medical vessel in the opening flashback, that's a neat tie in with Season 2.
Sadly they'd make less money that way, so they won't.
I thought this was fine. Not great, though. No real ending this episode. It started with them in an overmatched position, it ends the same way.
Likes:
1) Vadic.
2) Riker
3) Ensign LaForge
4) TWOK #2 set up in the nebula.
Meh:
1) Not sure Shaw was wrong at any point on his risk analysis. Not sure 7 or JLP would have persuaded me.
2) Big reveals (Picard's son, Worf) were telegraphed, but still fine with me. Good to see Worf again, and I have always been a Picard/Beverly shipper. Glad JLP is not the last Picard like Kirk was. Hope Jack does not meet David's fate.
I don't have a problem with Beverly bearing a son. She was born in 2324. Nemesis is supposedly 2379. She'd have been 54/55 if they hooked up shortly after. Right at the edge of modern childbearing age. Halle Berry had a kid at 52, IIRC. Plus, remember the clock got rewound a bit in Insurrection. This idea that she couldn't have a child at her age does not hold water, in my view.
3) Titan.
I have no issue with this Titan not being the flagship anymore. Neo-Constitution class is indeed a lower-end ship. And plenty of Star Fleet ships are more science oriented (USS Grisholm in TWOK). Also-remember Riker was NOT commanding the Titan at the end if S1. The baddest, top-end ship he was on was the Curiousity Class Zheng He. A bit confusing, and disappointing, though. The Titan should be a TITAN, not a mouse.
Dislikes:
1) Picard & Riker & Jack forgetting the transport inhibitors. From 30 seconds before.
2) The writing technique of making the heroes seem smart by making another character dumb/small rather than the heroes demonstrating they ARE smart.
Seven's appeal to Shaw should not have been a shallow threat/point, but something better. "Captain, I respect your decision to protect the lives of the crew, but I know these men & they would not be out here doing this if lives were not at stake. I know that if the roles were reversed, they would not hesitate to help us. Whatever you think of them, these men have a lot of experience in situations like this, as do I. Even though we are outgunned, the crew is well trained and able, as is the Captain. It is a risk, and your call, but we can do the right thing here and get out of this. We don't have to defeat them, just get clear and back to Federation space. "
Ditto Picard's later. I get you have to have two spiel's, but one of them should actually be good. If not both. Neither was here.
Cannot go higher than a 7.
Likes:
1) Vadic.
2) Riker
3) Ensign LaForge
4) TWOK #2 set up in the nebula.
Meh:
1) Not sure Shaw was wrong at any point on his risk analysis. Not sure 7 or JLP would have persuaded me.
2) Big reveals (Picard's son, Worf) were telegraphed, but still fine with me. Good to see Worf again, and I have always been a Picard/Beverly shipper. Glad JLP is not the last Picard like Kirk was. Hope Jack does not meet David's fate.
I don't have a problem with Beverly bearing a son. She was born in 2324. Nemesis is supposedly 2379. She'd have been 54/55 if they hooked up shortly after. Right at the edge of modern childbearing age. Halle Berry had a kid at 52, IIRC. Plus, remember the clock got rewound a bit in Insurrection. This idea that she couldn't have a child at her age does not hold water, in my view.
3) Titan.
I have no issue with this Titan not being the flagship anymore. Neo-Constitution class is indeed a lower-end ship. And plenty of Star Fleet ships are more science oriented (USS Grisholm in TWOK). Also-remember Riker was NOT commanding the Titan at the end if S1. The baddest, top-end ship he was on was the Curiousity Class Zheng He. A bit confusing, and disappointing, though. The Titan should be a TITAN, not a mouse.
Dislikes:
1) Picard & Riker & Jack forgetting the transport inhibitors. From 30 seconds before.
2) The writing technique of making the heroes seem smart by making another character dumb/small rather than the heroes demonstrating they ARE smart.
Seven's appeal to Shaw should not have been a shallow threat/point, but something better. "Captain, I respect your decision to protect the lives of the crew, but I know these men & they would not be out here doing this if lives were not at stake. I know that if the roles were reversed, they would not hesitate to help us. Whatever you think of them, these men have a lot of experience in situations like this, as do I. Even though we are outgunned, the crew is well trained and able, as is the Captain. It is a risk, and your call, but we can do the right thing here and get out of this. We don't have to defeat them, just get clear and back to Federation space. "
Ditto Picard's later. I get you have to have two spiel's, but one of them should actually be good. If not both. Neither was here.
Cannot go higher than a 7.
