Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x01 - "The Next Generation"

[Sci]

Man, this space anomaly respectfully bussin' sir, ferreal, fereal. I am being so deadass with you now, sir, these readings are off the chain! No Cap.

There's nothing wrong with using modern vernacular and idioms provided they were the language the writers and actors themselves use and are comfortable with. If they're using language and idioms that they themselves are not actually familiar with and would never use -- if they are, for instance, trying to imitate the vernacular and idioms of African-American Vernacular English without ever having spoken AAVE themselves -- then it will come across as inauthentic and probably even disrespectful to the community whom they were trying to imitate.

And yet I can communicate with people from England. So it hasn't changed that much.

I mean, yes and no? If you show most people a performance of a Shakespeare play, they can figure out what the meaning of the language is, but it's often not the instantaneous understanding you get when you use contemporary language. In real life, I expect then denizens of the 24th and 25th Centuries will understand us today about as well as we understand Shakespeare. We'll sound archaic but not unintelligible.

I actually like Shaw. I can definitely sympathize with him. I don't blame him one bit for being grumpy to Picard and Riker. I have EXACTLY the same attitude when some jackboots from Corporate come around my store. If anything, Shaw was nicer to Picard than I am to them!

And I'm sticking with my view that Shaw has every right to order Seven to go by her human name. He's the captain, and that gives him the right. When Seven has a ship of her own, she can call herself whatever the hell she "identifies" with. Until then? ing DEAL with it.

I'm sorry, but part of being a good captain is demonstrating to your crew that you value them and respect them. And if you're refusing to recognize their fundamental identity, the message you're sending them is that you don't value their lives. That's not being a good officer or a good commanding officer.

 

[fireproof78]

We'll sound archaic but not unintelligible.

Yes, that's my point.

 

[Tuskin38]

it's good to have him back to the Picard we remember this season.

We had that at the end of Season 1 and in Season 2.

 

[TerryTrek]

There's some debate over whether that's true.

Even at the end of S1, when Lady Admiral told Picard to 'shut the ____ up' and Picard just took it with a giddy smile, ...yeah. Maybe it was the Irumodic Syndrome.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Think of it this way. You meet a man whose named Richard on his identification and birth certificate. However, when you meet, he says "Richard was my father and we didn't get along, please call me 'Dick'." Do you say, "Well, no. Your official name of record is 'Richard' and therefore that is what I'm going to call you because that's who you really are whether you want to accept it or not"? Of course not. That would be a dick move

or a richard move?

 

[Sci]

There's some debate over whether that's true.

Even at the end of S1, when Lady Admiral

"Lady" Admiral rather than Admiral, huh?

told Picard to 'shut the ____ up' and Picard just took it with a giddy smile, ...yeah. Maybe it was the Irumodic Syndrome.

No, that was him recognizing that this time, she meant it with begrudging respect rather than contempt, because he was capable of recognizing context clues such as her tone of voice.

 

[DaveyNY]

Thanks for sharing!
I have a hard time saving/copying any of the images. Instagram does not seem to support a Save As feature.

With a bit of effort, you can still get pretty good results to make a PC background ...

 

[TRON JA307020]

It's a TV show.

That's no excuse I'm my book. It's a undisputed fact that language changes constantly.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

being a very methodical, ordered individual who is set in his ways.

Nothing wrong with that, in and of itself.

 

[fireproof78]

Even at the end of S1, when Lady Admiral told Picard to 'shut the ____ up' and Picard just took it with a giddy smile, ...yeah. Maybe it was the Irumodic Syndrome.

What you watching? Admiral Clancy had a point. Picard bad mouthes Starfleet then asks for help?

 

[Tuskin38]

That's no excuse I'm my book. It's a undisputed fact that language changes constantly.

Yeah but we don't live in the future, so the language needs to be understandable to modern audiences.

 

[DaveyNY]

Yeah but we don't live in the future, so the language needs to be understandable to modern audiences.

And that would be the underlying fact in all modern Sci-Fi shows.
If your audience can't relate to the words being spoken, then what's the point.
TOS did do "future speak" in an episode or two and it came off as rather goofy and more dated than they desired.

 

[TerryTrek]

"Lady" Admiral rather than Admiral, huh?

Can't recall her name.

What you watching? Admiral Clancy had a point. Picard bad mouthes Starfleet then asks for help?

Picard was right, and Starfleet was compromised.
Either way, the show tried hard to 'humble' Admiral Picard with dialogue like that for whatever reason, instead of respecting him.

I'm happy S3 is righting that, from those who have seen it all.

 

[Lt Mo]

Re: language used, the only one that really stuck out and bothered me was Shaw referencing people “above their pay grades”. Unless I missed something I thought Starfleet a post-money organization. I assumed they were all volunteers and even if they weren’t, they would all be compensated the same. If it’s just an expression, seems like it would be a super dated one.

 

[fireproof78]

Picard was right, and Starfleet was compromised.

He had zero proof. She had no reason to trust his conspiracy theory with no proof.

Either way, the show tried hard to 'humble' Admiral Picard with dialogue like that for whatever reason, instead of respecting him.

He was a dick to Starfleet
He doesn't get carte blanche.

 

[RuleofAcuisition17]

There's nothing wrong with using modern vernacular and idioms provided they were the language the writers and actors themselves use and are comfortable with. If they're using language and idioms that they themselves are not actually familiar with and would never use -- if they are, for instance, trying to imitate the vernacular and idioms of African-American Vernacular English without ever having spoken AAVE themselves -- then it will come across as inauthentic and probably even disrespectful to the community whom they were trying to imitate.

Which is why stuff like GTA V got people in that did speak it and made sure to record plenty of people and get a bit of an idea of the "lingo" before siccing their voice actors onto it.

The problem comes when you use it in such a way that it will date itself very very quickly. GTA V gets away with it by setting itself largely in 2012 is for Online and the latter half of 2013 for the actual single player. Which means the various archaic/outdated slang and AAVE can be easily excused as "from that year". There was also just enough time between when the game is set and when it was released that you had a buffer between them. Stuff like the desperate rewrites for DISCO Season 2 resulted in really breaking with that in a desperate attempt to shore up ratings after The Orville become a hit. It feels clunky because it is, and dates itself very quickly because it rammed humour in, rather than tried to make it a natural part of the flow of a crew that had been together for a while like Pike's Enterprise Crew. It dropped it pretty damn quickly too.

Which is also partly why Trek takes that weird Shakespearian quality to the dialogue others have complained about, especially in Berman-Era Trek. It gives it a strangely ethereal timeless quality to if that can beome a bit quaint. But its there for a reason, it really does give a sense of grandeur to what is, basically, actors prancing around on screen.

 

[fireproof78]

It gives it a strangely ethereal timeless quality to if that can beome a bit quaint. But its there for a reason, it really does give a sense of grandeur to what is, basically, actors prancing around on screen.

It becomes a stage play. Don't tell me that's humanity evolved.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: language used, the only one that really stuck out and bothered me was Shaw referencing people “above their pay grades”. Unless I missed something I thought Starfleet a post-money organization.

The Federation doesn't use money...until it does.

Seriously. That's pretty much it. If a writer feels like putting it in there, they will, and the continuity will just have to sort itself out.

And besides, we have always known (ever since TOS) that Federation credits are a thing. So there's your "pay".

 

[Tuskin38]

Either way, the show tried hard to 'humble' Admiral Picard with dialogue like that for whatever reason, instead of respecting him.

Why should he be respected when he just threw starfleet under the bus?

And the second use made sense too, he was rambling one when she was trying to get a word in.

Unless I missed something I thought Starfleet a post-money organization

https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/economy.htm

Dave Blass's wife has an appearence as an orion on a bilboard
https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1627752195184812032

 

[TRON JA307020]

I actually like Shaw. I can definitely sympathize with him. I don't blame him one bit for being grumpy to Picard and Riker. I have EXACTLY the same attitude when some jackboots from Corporate come around my store. If anything, Shaw was nicer to Picard than I am to them!

And I'm sticking with my view that Shaw has every right to order Seven to go by her human name. He's the captain, and that gives him the right. When Seven has a ship of her own, she can call herself whatever the hell she "identifies" with. Until then? ing DEAL with it.

It is his ship. If he wants legal names she has to follow protocol. If she legally gets her name changed to Seven than that's what Shaw would call her. But as far as we all know ship protocol would be to use legal names with rank not nicknames. Shaw is a by the book guy as Terry Matalas already stated.