That's what it probably was originally. Ed Whitefire's blueprints had these lounges on Decks 16,17,18,19.
"Why the Enterprise-D Was Badly Designed"
- Thread starter Danja
- Start date
I agree, 10,000 people sounds like a better fit for the Enterprise-D crew size than 1,000 people.
But again, the original concept was for a 10-year mission far from any base without relief. Would you want to be crammed in with 10,000 people for 10 years?
Also, who needs 10,000 people when the same seven lead characters do every damn mission anyway.
Not without a full complement of showers and toilets...
Maybe 15,000 for short clips. This oddly reminds me of the issue with the Shelliak was made an issue because Data didn't bring up the ship's size and sheer volume, but the lack of huge shuttles in the never-seen shuttlebay 01, to go back and forth enough times would still go beyond the date stamped by the Shelliak. (Presuming their biggest shuttle has a capacity of 100 colonists, they have five shuttles, each shuttle takes - on average* - 30 minutes, one way... then how long it takes to get the people on board the shuttles... and how to deal with the anxious kids either running away, and/or making a mess of their drawers, and every other conceivable reality... there's not enough time either way.)
* which is often denoted as "at the speed of plot" but that's not important right now
Also, who needs 10,000 people when the same seven lead characters do every damn mission anyway.
LOL
During the Berman-era, the regular shuttles (Type 6, 7 & 8) are limited to about half-a-dozen passengers. Larger auxiliary vessels like the Danuble-class runabout are good for forty to fifty passengers based on on-screen evidence. No vessel capable of being internally transported on a Galaxy-class starship is good for as much as a hundred passengers
You can easily put more than 50 people into a Danube class, the back compartment we saw on TNG probably fits over 100 people and you can get at least 20 on a shuttle, during an evacuation from the surface to a ship in orbit comfort is a non issue, just squash them in like sardines. It's a 10 minute flight, who cares?
But again, the original concept was for a 10-year mission far from any base without relief. Would you want to be crammed in with 10,000 people for 10 years?
Also, who needs 10,000 people when the same seven lead characters do every damn mission anyway.
Those seven will survive no doubt, but if you can't restock for 10 years, you'll want some spares for those Ensign Redshirts dying every week
(Captain's Motivational Speech: But you won't be living in these cramped conditions for ten years! Either you die before that time, or others do, and you'll get more and more space!)
I wasn't aware of any official specs referred to offscreen, only that there's a ginormous main shuttlebay whose interior never ever got seen on screen due to TV production costs and inability to really showcase the main pad (so to speak) as a result... combined with the overall size of the ship, it's strange there's no contingency to accommodate an emergency situation for at least several thousand - should the transporters go out thanks to the plot anomaly of the week and they run into boatloads of those. It's easy to imagine or infer they might have one or few shuttles capable of transporting something like 100 people could fit inside that main bay. The numbers were just gross estimates to illustrate that there was no way that 1701-D could pick up everyone from that colony. Later seasons and spinoffs did build fancier shuttles, but it still felt like everyone forgot there's that big shuttlebay in the saucer that never got used, with nobody conjuring up any large shuttles to complement the concept either. I'll have to look it up one day...
Another contingency idea, why not pop out those escape pod lifeboats instead, with each one being appx 2x3 meters or whatever and are likely tall enough for a small number of humans to stand up in, send them down, pick up 3~9 people (depending on interior layout) in each of those, return them, and repeat a few times? How many of those exist? I'm assuming the boats would be designed to be able to re-dock to the main craft. Either way, it's always at the speed of plot and if the story can make you forget all those other tiddly technical details...
^^this
For a temporary evacuation procedure, to get as many people to safety in the shortest periods of time. TEoC's time limitation still made any shuttle contingency at the time impossible - but depending on numbers, add in all the shuttles (retroactively, was Danube in season 3?) and escape pods... would the colony have any colony ships of their own that might still be flight-worthy? The episode did run with a summary (albeit shuttles and only as known by the scriptwriters at tie time), but it's still fun to dig into it.
And you'd have to, considering they evacuated the station a few times with only three Runabouts. (Presumably, when Quark was "selling seats" they weren't literally seats, just space.)
Actually, it's a fairly common notion that he was selling seats, ie that in "evac mode" the Runabout's mid-ships modules were replaced with something similar to coach seating, which given the ~10m long block is probably pushing it to accommodate even the ~40 implied on the show never mind more than that.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=average+length+of+a+coach+bus
The Runabout is a lot like a SPACE 1999 Eagle though---se only saw the aft room and the walkthrough---not the interior pods.
There is a long range shuttle we really only saw in Insurrection and Picard
https://www.neutralzone.de/database/Federation/Shuttle/Type11Shuttle01.htm
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarTrekStarships/comments/t8ng6u/type_14_shuttle_from_pic_s02e01/
Although there were others
https://myenterprised.com/special-issue-4/
Was the Powell class canon?
There is a long range shuttle we really only saw in Insurrection and Picard
https://www.neutralzone.de/database/Federation/Shuttle/Type11Shuttle01.htm
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarTrekStarships/comments/t8ng6u/type_14_shuttle_from_pic_s02e01/
Although there were others
https://myenterprised.com/special-issue-4/
Was the Powell class canon?
Most of other shuttlecraft designs are in the 8-15m range for length, so are unlikely to have significantly larger capacity than the ~23m Runabout.
I'm having trouble even tracking down references to the Powell-class shuttle at all, so I'm gonna to say "not canon" at least under that name for the moment sans any better evidence.
I'm having trouble even tracking down references to the Powell-class shuttle at all, so I'm gonna to say "not canon" at least under that name for the moment sans any better evidence.
I believe the only small craft we've seen that is significantly larger than a Danube-class runabout is the Sovereign-class captain's yacht. Even the Delta Flyer and the Federation fighters are smaller.
Technically the "mission scout ship" from Insurrection is probably slightly larger in terms of total mass but the former appears to be fairly lacking in passenger/cargo capability compared to the Runabout or Sovvie's yacht, which is only slightly longer at 33.5m compared to the Runabout's ~23m but nearly three times the mass, so probably a greater (though unstated) passenger/cargo capacity.
In my head the shuttle from INS is just a newer model of runabout...in fact, without looking closely I though it was a runabout.
Sort of.
The Sovvie Yacht doesn't appear to have modularity of the Danube-class, they map as more of an over-sized Delta Flyer, so I'm not sure that it would able to "punch above its weight" to the same extent that runabouts did occasionally, but as medium-range transports/light cargo vessels they're certainly equivalent.
The Sovvie Yacht doesn't appear to have modularity of the Danube-class, they map as more of an over-sized Delta Flyer, so I'm not sure that it would able to "punch above its weight" to the same extent that runabouts did occasionally, but as medium-range transports/light cargo vessels they're certainly equivalent.
Seemed more like de-constructing a concept which didn't need such an obstacle??? TOS had the sense that it was all figured out for a long travel in deep space for an extended amount of time. The Propulsion Units, Space Warp Engines, would be at a distance from the upper and lower decks of the Enterprise; so the dangers the crew faced would be what they engaged in outer space. It was a complete derelict of design to go in that method from TMP through CBS TREK, because it has created all loads of problems in engineering; which the writers has exploited time and time and time and time and time and time AGAIN to show something the audience already knows, but understood it was beyond solved in TOS.
Something so powerful should be outside within the forces of space not inside where humans are living and working. It's stupid and it doesn't make those character look any smarter working near a reactor which can spill radiation which should kill lifeforms in minutes.
This reminds me of NASA in real life where they created a near perfect spacecraft, capsule, all it needed were more tinkering and advancements to continue space flight. Then, someone had the bright idea to bring forth the Space Shuttle which created WHOLE NEW problems which never were resolved until the techs snitched and exposed the frailties of that awful design.
The Engineering characters from TMP thru ALLACCESS TREK appear to be smart but none of them has the presence of mind to know their warp core has major design flaws.
The support craft was the best part of INSURRECTION. The big shuttle was what was docked to Data’s sub-Defiant scout craft…way underutilized.
It also should have been featured on DS9
It really felt as though other than minor mentions, Defiant in FC and Worf, the TNG films and DS9 were practically in alternate timelines....and considering that the films didn't even particuarly touch on what Worf was up to on DS9, that's a marginal crossover at best.
I still think that was an error on TPTB's part, and that they missed the chance for some grand storytelling that they might have done if they'd embraced the possibilities.
I still think that was an error on TPTB's part, and that they missed the chance for some grand storytelling that they might have done if they'd embraced the possibilities.
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