DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

[Dee1891]

I've seen those quotes, and I'm down with most of what Gunn says, except I'm not crazy about the word "galoot." It calls to mind something like Li'l Abner, and that's not Superman. Hope Gunn doesn't overcompensate and cross the line from farmboy to hayseed.

OTOH, this guy does look kind of like a "big ol' galoot," and it's one of my favorite portrayals of Clark ever:

That small misgiving aside, I remain excited and optimistic about Superman: Legacy.

Ohmigod! This is just a rumor. Right? Please God, let this be a rumor.

That would be a treat. It's a nice bonus when the director actually understands the character.

Oh good fucking grief! I'm not directing my comments at you, but at James Gunn.

 

[Nerys Myk]

How is Gunn wrong?

 

[The Knappos]

I don't want an 'old-fashioned 1950s man living in the 21st Century' Superman, and I suspect that most general audience viewers won't either.

Worked for Captain America

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I doubt it, the Arrowverse has lasted longer, had more productions by far

Movies on the level of the DCEU are not slapped-together productions a studio can crank out like the Arrowverse.

and based on Metacritic's ratings has been more successful critically

...yet one of the most consistent details about the Arrowverse is that its series were low rated and in most cases, appeared cheap. When the Arrowverse ends, I seriously doubt there will ever be a campaign to "restore the Arrowverse" and lead to a revival of any of its shows in any live action form. In fact, Berlanti DC series were / are used as a negative / indicator of questionable value in reference to the reaction to the Batgirl screening (posted on 8/29/22) :

"Umberto Gonzales: "...but uh, the consensus that I've been getting is that uh--yeah, a source of mine said 'I saw Batgirl--certainly not the worst superhero movie I've seen, but ultimately, I understand why they took the write down', and I'm like oh, and I asked this individual to elaborate a little further and uh, was told it is a...its basically, essentially an expensive CW pilot which is what I heard it was, but I have to agree so--and i've heard that before too that it plays like a very expensive CW pilot.

Um, it's not really a strong film. Uh, the tone is just very CW--lacking any depth, lighter and more comic-book like..."

Creating a clear separation in how a CW/DC production comes off as opposed to movie expectations should tell you that the CW/DC level is not what the studio wanted to see, and that certainly apples to DCEU fans.

 

[JD]

Right, their ratings were so low that Arrow lasted 8 seasons, The Flash lasted 9, Supergirl lasted 6, Legends of Tomorrow lasted 7, Black Lightning lasted 4, and Batwoman lasted 3. Obviously, they were all massive failures that nobody watched .

 

[DigificWriter]

Worked for Captain America

Because Captain Ametica was literally a "man out of time".

There's a distinct difference between that and what Gunn is championing as being 'who Superman is', which is a 'modern man with old-fashioned values, morals, and behavior'; I personally have zero interest in that type of character and, as previously noted, suspect that most general audience viewers won't either.

 

[Christopher]

Right, their ratings were so low that Arrow lasted 8 seasons, The Flash lasted 9, Supergirl lasted 6, Legends of Tomorrow lasted 7, Black Lightning lasted 4, and Batwoman lasted 3. Obviously, they were all massive failures that nobody watched .

Well, though I'm a fan of the Arrowverse, it must be admitted that the shows' ratings were low enough that they would've been cancelled on any other network. The CW was kind of a haven for cult shows that wouldn't survive elsewhere, because they made up for the low broadcast ratings by resale of the shows to Netflix and overseas broadcasters, and through streaming viewership. Unfortunately, the Netflix deal is over and the new regime wants to retool the network toward more conventional demographic targets, which is why the Arrowverse is pretty much defunct now.

 

[Dee1891]

Because Captain Ametica was literally a "man out of time".

There's a distinct difference between that and what Gunn is championing as being 'who Superman is', which is a 'modern man with old-fashioned values, morals, and behavior'; I personally have zero interest in that type of character and, as previously noted, suspect that most general audience viewers won't either.

Even I thought the MCU's Captain America was complicated in his own way. Especially in "The Winter Soldier".

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Because Captain Ametica was literally a "man out of time".

There's a distinct difference between that and what Gunn is championing as being 'who Superman is', which is a 'modern man with old-fashioned values, morals, and behavior'; I personally have zero interest in that type of character and, as previously noted, suspect that most general audience viewers won't either.

Honest question: why?
What's wrong with someone that has strong moral values and behaviour that reflects that?

 

[Samurai8472]

It would certainly drive home the divide between "Quiet American values in Smallville life" to "bustling Metropolis. Go. Go. Go"

Much like how Richard Donner felt his movie was 3 movies in one. You have the Kryptonian segment, Smallville and Metropolis.

 

[The Realist]

It's possible to portray Superman as a "man out of time" and have it be very effective. It's all over the interview scene with Lois in Superman '78, for example. But Superman in that scene also comes off as sexy, sly, knowing, and playful. His "old-fashioned" qualities aren't born of naivete or foolishness, but of conviction and confidence. It's a big part of why Lois falls for him immediately, as he gently deflects her very modern cynicism with ease and certainty. If Gunn can capture something of that tone, updated with a contemporary spark, there's no reason it couldn't play just as well.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Because Captain Ametica was literally a "man out of time".

There's a distinct difference between that and what Gunn is championing as being 'who Superman is', which is a 'modern man with old-fashioned values, morals, and behavior'; I personally have zero interest in that type of character and, as previously noted, suspect that most general audience viewers won't either.

Depends on what those values are. I doubt we're talking about a greedy, misogynistic, racist homophobe here. I think more along the line of someone who sees the good in people, gives everyone an even break and firmly believes that "all men are created equal".

 

[DigificWriter]

'A big ol' galoot farmboy from Kansas who's very idealistic, whose greatest weakness is that he'll never kill anybody, who doesn't want to hurt a living soul' is not a character who is likely to have widespread appeal in current society.

James Gunn might find that type of character appealing, but I suspect that he'll end up finding out the hard way that his opinion is not widely echoed.

 

[The Realist]

^ The whole point is the way it contrasts with and interrogates "current society." Superman shouldn't be us, he should inspire us to become him.

As a follow-up to my post above, here's a fine analysis of the interview scene and how it makes "old-fashioned" Superman work, by Erik Lundegaard:

It’s in the scene where Lois Lane interviews Superman on the veranda of her apartment the night after the night he saves her from the helicopter crash, and, in the process of getting her scoop, her professional demeanor keeps slipping. Superman tells her he likes pink, the color of her underwear (they got down to it quickly in the ‘70s), and she says, dreamily, “Why are you?” before amending it to the more professional “Why are you here?” “I’m here to fight for truth and justice and the American way,” he responds, to which she, a good, cynical reporter, declares, “You’re going to wind up fighting every elected official in this country!” Their back-and-forth is esentially a battle between ‘50s and ‘70s sensibilities. Supes is the square, the boy-scoutish butt of the joke for us cynical hipsters in the audience.

Superman: Surely you don’t mean that, Lois.
Lois: I don’t believe this.
Superman: Lois?
Lois: Hmm?
Superman: I never lie.

It’s almost a non sequitur, isn’t it? Christopher Reeve, bless him, delivers the line with such conviction, such uprightness and stalwartness, that he makes the square hip. He makes our cynicism irrelevant, almost tawdry, and gives us, and Lois, something to believe in.

https://eriklundegaard.com/item/my-most-quoted-movie-lines-no-5

 

[Nerys Myk]

'A big ol' galoot farmboy from Kansas who's very idealistic, whose greatest weakness is that he'll never kill anybody, who doesn't want to hurt a living soul' is not a character who is likely to have widespread appeal in current society.

James Gunn might find that type of character appealing, but I suspect that he'll end up finding out the hard way that his opinion is not widely echoed.

You might be surprised

 

[Tosk]

I for one very much like the sound of where this is headed. I only hope they deliver. I've been waiting a looooong time to see a Superman movie where I come out feeling excited and elated.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

'A big ol' galoot farmboy from Kansas who's very idealistic, whose greatest weakness is that he'll never kill anybody, who doesn't want to hurt a living soul' is not a character who is likely to have widespread appeal in current society.

What is going on in this world, seriously??

I can't believe I just read that and that you're genuinely believing this. Are you surrounded by murderers and people that want to harm other living souls as neighbours or something? That this is your norm? You realize it's normal to not have these tendencies, yes?

Watch some Ted Lasso or something, please. A character that seems to have "widespread appeal in our current society". Not wanting to hurt others is healthy.

 

[DigificWriter]

We live in a world where Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Dexter, Hannibal, and The Sopranos exist and are/were incredibly popular, where 57 countries are ruled by dictatorships, and where nearly 40% of people living in the United States actively support a delusional human garbage pile who should be jailed but probably never will be and could possibly end up back in the White House in two years.

When that's the reality of the society we live in, James Gunn's version of Superman sadly may not have a place.

I do applaud Gunn for his optimism, but also fear that he's in for a rude awakening when it comes to how well that kind of character is going to be received.

 

[F. King Daniel]

On the rumour that Gunn 'debunked' which was that we'd see a former Batman and that would be the DC universe's new batman

Spoiler

There are reports they are true to an extent, but Grace Randolph misjudged the significance of them.

The latest reshoot ends the film on a cliff-hanger, with Barry realizing he hasn't reached home, it's like the whole premise of Sliders, and this is how they're writing Barry out, as he's lost in the multiverse, George Clooney in a scene where Bruce meets with Barry at the courthouse and that's when Barry realizes he's lost

Clooney isn't Gunn's Batman going forward, it's just a fun cameo that informs us of the last major development for Ezra

That's probably the best way to write him out and leave the future slate clean for whatever mashup universe of old and new they want to move forward with.

 

[Dee1891]

The whole point is the way it contrasts with and interrogates "current society." Superman shouldn't be us, he should inspire us to become him.

That doesn't sound like good writing to me. That sounds like lazy characterization. Superman can still be a decent person, but also one who is complex and has some personality flaws. Why is that so hard to accept? Why must we stick to cliches for this guy?

Reading some of these rumors, including how the Flash's arc might end, makes me feel as if the DC's movie universe has taken a step backward.