What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[eschaton]

There are a lot of terrible TOS episodes, IMHO, but Spock's Brain is similar to The Savage Curtain or The Gamesters of Triskelion - bad in a goofy, entertaining, B-movie sort way. It's disappointing that Trek's quality dropped that low, but it's still entertaining for the same reason that watching Troll 2 or something is entertaining.

On the other hand, I can't even get ironic enjoyment out of snorefests like The Paradise Syndrome, The Cloud Minders, And the Children Shall Lead, etc.

Bottom line is ridiculous shit is better than boring shit.

 

[at Quark's]

There are a lot of terrible TOS episodes, IMHO, but Spock's Brain is similar to The Savage Curtain or The Gamesters of Triskelion - bad in a goofy, entertaining, B-movie sort way. It's disappointing that Trek's quality dropped that low, but it's still entertaining for the same reason that watching Troll 2 or something is entertaining.

On the other hand, I can't even get ironic enjoyment out of snorefests like The Paradise Syndrome, The Cloud Minders, And the Children Shall Lead, etc.

Bottom line is ridiculous shit is better than boring shit.

I agree. It's the same reason why I still like Voyager's Threshold. It may be offensive to the guardians of logic, internal story consistency and science concepts, but at least it has this 'what the hell were they smoking when they wrote this, I wanna try that stuff?' and 'anything could happen' quality to it , and I therefore like it better than many a formulaic, predictable mediocre episode where my finger is itching to push the 'fast forward' button.

 

[eschaton]

I agree. It's the same reason why I still like Voyager's Threshold. It may be offensive to the guardians of logic, internal story consistency and science concepts, but at least it has this 'what the hell were they smoking when they wrote this, I wanna try that stuff?' and 'anything could happen' quality to it , and I therefore like it better than many a formulaic, predictable mediocre episode.

I'll also say as an addendum given the longer runtimes of TOS episodes, a boring episode is incrementally worse to try and slog through than a boring episode of the later series, because there's six minutes or so...more...of crap to deal with.

This also may be part of why I don't think TAS has any truly unwatchable episodes, despite all the production issues. It's hard for a 22-minute episode to get interminably boring.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"The Way to Eden" is in the top half of third season episodes. I will die on that hill.

 

[Tallguy]

"The Way to Eden" is in the top half of third season episodes. I will die on that hill.

"I wish I had your passion, Ray. Misdirected though it might be, it is still a passion."

 

[Macintosh]

"The Way to Eden" is in the top half of third season episodes. I will die on that hill.

That's a damning indictment of the rest of season three...

 

[fireproof78]

"The Way to Eden" is in the top half of third season episodes. I will die on that hill.

I think it is a good episode with a lot of great performances, and world building important to Star Trek as a whole.

And some of my favorite Trek episodes are from Season 3: Enterprise Incident, All our Yesterdays, Friday's Child, Way to Eden, Tholian Web, Day of the Dove, and even "Is There No Truth in Beauty."

 

[tomalak301]

And some of my favorite Trek episodes are from Season 3: Enterprise Incident, All our Yesterdays, Friday's Child, Way to Eden, Tholian Web, Day of the Dove, and even "Is There No Truth in Beauty."

Friday's Child was from Season 2.

Season 3 has a lot of enjoyable episodes like Enterprise Incident, Tholian Web, Spock's Brain, Spectre of the Gun, and Day of the Dove. It's not as bad as people make it seem.

 

[cooleddie74]

To me the standout episodes of Season 3 in no particular order are "The Enterprise Incident," "Day of the Dove," "The Tholian Web," "The Empath," "Requiem for Methuselah" and "All Our Yesterdays." The rest of the season falls onto the tolerable-to-okay to downright terrible scale.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Whenever I think of The Way to Eden, I always think it's pretty funny that when Charles Napier did DS9 (Little Green Men), he specifically asked for a role that was as unlike Adam as possible. And with General Denning, I think we got exactly that.

(fun fact: Napier actually wrote the songs he sings as Adam!)

 

[fireproof78]

Friday's Child was from Season 2.

Season 3 has a lot of enjoyable episodes like Enterprise Incident, Tholian Web, Spock's Brain, Spectre of the Gun, and Day of the Dove. It's not as bad as people make it seem.

Thank you. Misread my lists.

 

[Sci]

Two relatively controversial opinions I have about Star Trek:

• Star Trek relies on the assumption that differences between its various alien cultures are the result of biology too much, and therefore inadvertently tends to feed into the belief many in the audience have (consciously or subconsciously) that differences between socially-defined in-groups and out-groups are the result of racial, ethnic, sexual, or other forms of essentialism. This is not intentional but it is harmful.
• Star Trek's depiction of the role of Starfleet and the Federation constitutes a fantasy of benevolent colonialism. Real-life colonialism, of course, was inherently harmful and oppressive, but Star Trek's position as the descendant of stories like Horatio Hornblower mean that Star Trek as a body of fictional works cannot be fully understood except in reference to real-life colonialism and the various ways in which colonialism has been represented in fiction.

To be clear, neither of these opinions keeps me from loving Star Trek, though I do want to see future productions introduce more cultural diversity within Star Trek's various species in order to move away from the idea that species essentialism drives everything.

 

[eschaton]

The music in The Way to Eden is so cringe for me that I have a hard time rewatching it.

Admittedly there's precious little beyond Leonard Cohen and Nick Drake I'd willingly submit to listening to from the 60s.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Admittedly there's precious little beyond Leonard Cohen and Nick Drake I'd willing submit to listening to from the 60s.

Likewise, but in my case the Beatles.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

but at least it has this 'what the hell were they smoking when they wrote this, I wanna try that stuff?'

Sort of like "Phantasms" and "Frame of Mind."

And as to music from the 1960s, well, Emma Lou Diemer, Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams, Wendy Carlos, Morten Lauridsen*, Dmitri Shostakovich, Benjamin Britten, Maurice Jarre, and Alan Hovhaness were all active during that period.

____
*Just one of these days, I'd like to get composer Morten Lauridsen, KUSC jock Brian Lauritzen, and ST producer Peter Lauritson into the same room, at the same time. Would the universe then blink out of existence, to be instantly replaced by an even more bizarre one? Or would they all simply order drinks homophonic with "jynnan tonnyx," and be referring to three entirely different drinks?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I should probably listen to more Wendy Carlos. I freaking LOVE her music from Tron.

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[CorporalCaptain]

I should probably listen to more Wendy Carlos. I freaking LOVE her music from Tron.

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It's brilliant.

"The Way to Eden" is just like "Spock's Brain", so bad it's good, except "Spock's Brain" takes it to an art-form that makes me really love the episode. I don't care what anyone else says! "The Way to Eden" doesn't quite get there, but it almost does.

That's about it, except for me "Eden" surpasses "Brain".

"Eden" is eminently quotable. At times, it's hilarious.

The music is super-cheesy, but I think "Headin' Out to Eden" is perfect, especially in the context of the scene, laced with irony and melancholy.

The subplot involving Sevrin's illness, his scenes in sickbay, and Spock's interview with him in the brig are firing on all cylinders.

The final line of the episode, "We reach, Mister Spock," operates on multiple levels. It's Kirk being less of a Herbert and admitting that he gets it, it's Kirk acknowledging the validity of what he said to Irana about finding Eden or making it yourself, and it's Kirk expressing basically his philosophy of existence that, day by day, we try, very much echoing the "peace or utter destruction" speech from "A Taste of Armageddon."

That's a damning indictment of the rest of season three...

Even the best of season three is noticeably inferior to the best from the earlier seasons. The show really suffered from the changes behind the scenes. It's night and day.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I should probably listen to more Wendy Carlos. I freaking LOVE her music from Tron.

Yes. The producers of Tron: Legacy really screwed up when they went with Daft Punk. Then again, they also screwed up badly when they failed to realize that the backlit animation (and its graininess) was what gave the original its otherworldly appearance, (and could have been easily and cheaply simulated digitally) and just made the programs look like people in neon suits, and when they failed to include Cindy Morgan as Lora/Yori.

BTW, one of the movements of Wendy's Moonscapes suite is, for all intents and purposes, a rejected cue intended for the Light Cycles scene. And indeed, once you know that, you can easily pick out the common theme.

 

[fireproof78]

Tron: Legacy still a great movie. Whoops, wrong controversial opinion thread...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm very sad that there won't be a third Tron movie.