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How would you have made the TNG movies?

If you ever read Michael Piller’s making of Insurrection book, it’s impossible to escape the conclusion the actors, specifically Stewart and Spiner were given too much input into the scripts and I think that was part of the problem. Stewart I can understand having a great deal of authority, Spiner not so much. Sure, Data was a popular character but Spiner was…no big name movie star. It’s natural for actors to have insight into what their characters would and wouldn’t do, but that doesn’t mean they understand how drama and screenwriting work.

Interestingly, while I think Data was a genuinely great character on TNG, his storylines in the movies are some of the worst content of ANY Trek films—the emotion chip storyline and his annoying histrionics, getting sleazed on by the HornBorg Queen and the perfectly pointless B4 plot.

If I’d been the boss I’d probably have tried to rein in actor demands when it came to the plot and execution.

I’d also have tried to give Beverly Crusher at least a bit more than the five lines she had across all four movies. As it happened, she was way more of a prop than character.
 
If you ever read Michael Piller’s making of Insurrection book, it’s impossible to escape the conclusion the actors, specifically Stewart and Spiner were given too much input into the scripts and I think that was part of the problem. Stewart I can understand having a great deal of authority, Spiner not so much. Sure, Data was a popular character but Spiner was…no big name movie star. It’s natural for actors to have insight into what their characters would and wouldn’t do, but that doesn’t mean they understand how drama and screenwriting work.

Interestingly, while I think Data was a genuinely great character on TNG, his storylines in the movies are some of the worst content of ANY Trek films—the emotion chip storyline and his annoying histrionics, getting sleazed on by the HornBorg Queen and the perfectly pointless B4 plot.

If I’d been the boss I’d probably have tried to rein in actor demands when it came to the plot and execution.

I’d also have tried to give Beverly Crusher at least a bit more than the five lines she had across all four movies. As it happened, she was way more of a prop than character.


1000% this

Stewart and Spiner in particular abused their leverage as actors because, let’s face it, a TNG movie isn’t going in front of the cameras without both of them, and pretty much forced their story ideas on the writers and directors of those films.

And I’d argue that Stewart in particular is guilty of doing the exact opposite of what you discuss here. He shoehorned in elements that were NOT in keeping with his character, as opposed to putting his foot down to maintain the character.
 
Exactly. TNG had long ago dispatched even the staunchest critic who felt they still needed TOS to hold its hand and say "this is Star Trek now".

My heart will always be with TOS, it's my favourite incarnation of the show by a country mile, but I think you could validly argue that even in 1994, TNG WAS Star Trek.

They should have completely dumped all the 23rd century stuff and spent the money on the rest of the film, starting with having a Klingon battlecruiser in there in place of the BoP.
 
They should have completely dumped all the 23rd century stuff and spent the money on the rest of the film, starting with having a Klingon battlecruiser in there in place of the BoP.

They already had models in stock if they wanted to do that. It wasn’t a budget issue.
 
They already had models in stock if they wanted to do that. It wasn’t a budget issue.

I know they had the models from the series - why didn't they use them then? It's so they could cut corners and re-use the BoP explosion from TUC.
 
I would've never had a crossover and have the characters have an adventure far far away from where they were. A starship discovers the Borg decimating a high tech world; this vessel was only equip to do only scientific studies and not fit for any sort of combat especially the likes of the Borg. As they survey and have guilt as the crew hears the screams from the aliens, the science officer scans to see an spatial distortion is occurring on the planet surface. Is it from the Borg??? What's the source??? The Officer can't verify. The Ex-O wants to investigate, the Captain wants to try to beam as many people as the ship can; She tells her 1st officer to form a landing party and see what's down there. When the Away team arrive they witness the carnage and mayhem from the Borg as the Cube enters through the atmosphere while ripping everything around this lost city. The team discover the distortion is getting larger and it appears the Borg is trying to engage it! They learn the distortion is centered in the planet's core, the Captain has concurred this with the science and Ops officer the source is technological and they've stayed as long as they could they have to bail out. The landing party returns to the ship just to notice they're phasing. Where? Unknown. The ship tries to leaving the system but gets sucked into the core of the planet as the borg cube vaporize.

Picard hears about the situation and journeys the crew to investigate; what the Enterprise discovers will take the crew where no one has gone before.

Sequel: Would be an extension of the 1st movie but will deal with Androids centered around Data. Why have the Federation launched a directive to have an ARMY OF DATAS??? Whatever it is the crew of the Enterprise will find out.

Love this :techman:

Perhaps it would even be possible to connect this somehow to the edge of the universe in "Where No One Has Gone Before".

Would really like to see this concept brought back in another Trek movie or show.
 
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I know they had the models from the series - why didn't they use them then? It's so they could cut corners and re-use the BoP explosion from TUC.

While clearly they did do that, I don't think that was the driving reason. I think at that point, the producers considered the BoP to be a popular/"signature" ship in terms of recognizability etc...

I could be wrong, but I'm not sure that was the reason.
 
that’s pretty much it. I mean, it did play a big role in 3, 4, 5 and 6. It became THE default Klingon ship.
 
that’s pretty much it. I mean, it did play a big role in 3, 4, 5 and 6. It became THE default Klingon ship.

I know but it makes the ship not only ancient, but also the battle not credible. The D, shields down or not should have wiped the floor with it in seconds.
 
I'd have made the films about exploration. Now, I'm no writer but even something simple like....

On the edge of Federation space, Enterprise finds derelict ship that it extremely old, big - or otherwise interesting.
They explore the ship
It powers up and is about to explode!
They can't stop the overload to beam out. They race to search for a transporter room or shuttle on the ship. They find a transporter room and beam out to......????
The derelict explodes, crippling the Enterprise on the edge of the neutral zone. They are drifting out of control into hostile territory.
Twin adventures ensue as we get a disaster movie in space with a ticking clock - and an adventure on.....a living asteroid filled with strange beings...or, maybe it was a Borg relic and their creepy descendants are living somewhere.

I don't know, but pretty much anything would have been better than the insipid 'Insurrection' or the franchise killer 'Nemesis'.
 
Love this :techman:

Perhaps it would even be possible to connect this somehow to the edge of the universe in "Where No One Has Gone Before".

Would really like to see this concept brought back in another Trek movie or show.
You got it!!! Since many people has completely dismissed the 1st season why couldn't we expand on ideas from that time and put some more thought and money into it. Good job!
 
I'd have made the films about exploration. Now, I'm no writer but even something simple like....

On the edge of Federation space, Enterprise finds derelict ship that it extremely old, big - or otherwise interesting.
They explore the ship
It powers up and is about to explode!
They can't stop the overload to beam out. They race to search for a transporter room or shuttle on the ship. They find a transporter room and beam out to......????
The derelict explodes, crippling the Enterprise on the edge of the neutral zone. They are drifting out of control into hostile territory.
Twin adventures ensue as we get a disaster movie in space with a ticking clock - and an adventure on.....a living asteroid filled with strange beings...or, maybe it was a Borg relic and their creepy descendants are living somewhere.

Definitely is a step up, though the Borg were definitely being overused by then. Then again, after FC, it would provide a chance to do a sequel on the big screen and do something better with them.

[quote[I don't know, but pretty much anything would have been better than the insipid 'Insurrection' or the franchise killer 'Nemesis'.[/QUOTE]

IMHO, INS killed the franchise, and NEM was supposed to be the phoenix after years of development to put out a polished, well-crafted script-- eh, well, almost...

INS was shoving and scribbling in too many half-baked ideas all over the place, most of which backfire because things other contradict, or don't align, or because nothing culminates to a proper and engaging threat - even the movie succeeding it four years later proved that all the events in this movie were pointless, not to mention that, after thinking about it for a while, the Baku seem to come off worse despite being the ones we're supposed to side with, probably because they're pretty or something. Definitely were pretty something, but I digress. The self-destruct trope is incredibly glaring, and for a machine that doesn't have any rational need for one, except for some gimmicky action. Worse yet, Data looks mighty angry at the start, despite overt dialogue stating "he didn't take (the emotion chip) with him" by Geordi, who then makes a summary order to send over Data's schematics to Dougherty and his friends, which I thought Maddox and others already had copies of and it makes more sense for starships to have a copy of master databases since a subspace link to HQ would take a long time for updated to get refreshed... and that emotion chip line is barely into the start of that movie. I won't mention the FTW song, which had me sinking in my chair in the theater in total embarrassment in 1998. Fans and non-fans agreed - it was crap. The fact that the movie's shock reveal is two steps shy of Jerry or Maury (and definitely was a bit faddish a trope by 1998) does not help, but would have if the movie did a better job at defining everyone but it can't even get any consistency for Starfleet and if it's the lot of them, a faction of baddies, and the story didn't really want to take the risk anywhere. It played it safe. But that's just glossing over that flick. Now onto what should have saved Trek:

NEM was supposed to be the franchise's phoenix IMHO, except the whole thing feels almost as if nobody gave a damn and instead shoved in as much as possible for some bunny-brained de4spire to be "EPIC"! If this were 1998, you'd bet correctly that "EPIC" would be in italics, underline, overline, bold, 128pt serif font* that would also use the BLINK element attribute** - something the HTML consortium removed for a halfway decent reason, but I digress: It's all very strange because, dune buggy bit aside, there is a flow and tense feel that they nail -- and it's the first film in some time that puts levity low on the priority list. Tone can only go so far, though. It's an unfocused mess of a script, with more contrivances that are supposed to shock and awe, and yet somehow don't... Drama, whether it be fiction or nonfiction, still needs to have its own set of rules, use them deftly and consistently, and not overload the adventure with shallow gimmicks. It still bugs me that just a few small tweaks and changes would have turned that jar of blop into a true honey pot. NEM easily could have been so much more, with ease. Even the new warship, the super-dee-duper one, would be more credible if the Romulans made it-- but before I digress into everything debatable about this flick too far, I'll reel myself in with a summary: INS was and still is an overstuffed joke, and NEM dropped the ball in trying to get Trek back to basics. Even the poster's appearance and tagline feel fatigued. But it's easier to fathom how NEM could be made to be a riveting success. INS is just nonsense that made a lot of season 1 somehow look better as a result.

Both films sorta reminds me of Homer Simpson's website, too:

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Head to 0:39 for the fun!




* Jokerman, oddly enough from 1995 as I wrote footnote two first and then this one came to mind and - voila - it's amazing what was borne out of 1995...
** sorry, couldn't find a website with a suitable analog for blinking text to make you feel like it's 1995 again, and the youtube videos are all tarted-up manure-- wait, just found one:

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Yeah, I agree - it's a shame the tag was abandoned.
 
There's a weird thing with the TNG Movies. They start in one era of film, what I call "Early-Modern Hollywood", starting in 1975 with Jaws and going up to 1998. ("Early-Modern Hollywood" overlaps with "New Hollywood" which lasted from 1967 to 1982, but that's a whole other topic.) That's where three of the four TNG Movies were made. Then Nemesis came out in what I just call "Modern Hollywood", which started in 1999 with The Matrix and The Phantom Menace and goes up to the Present Day.

In Early-Modern Hollywood, the TNG Movies could survive and they did. In Modern Hollywood, up against Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Spider-Man, X-Men, The Matrix, and the Star Wars prequels, the TNG Movies couldn't cut it.

So, if the TNG Movies were to have lasted longer, however they would've been before would've had to have changed no matter what.
 
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