As far as I'm concerned, TATV isn't even that bad on its own. Had it been some mid-season episode, I think it would have raised some eyebrows and some revilement, but nothing near to the levels of hate it because it happened to be the series finale.
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
- Start date
As far as I'm concerned, TATV isn't even that bad on its own. Had it been some mid-season episode, I think it would have raised some eyebrows and some revilement, but nothing near to the levels of hate it because it happened to be the series finale.
I still argue TATV would be bad even with tweaks because it wasn't even about any of the characters on the show.
While other episodes in the franchise focused entirely on characters who were not part of the main cast or recurring cast, like "PATHFINDER", they at least moved an arc for the series forward. (In this case, communication with Starfleet.)
Other examples...
"Lower Decks" - Sito appeared previously, and Ogawa was a recurring character.
"LIVING WITNESS" - The Doctor may have been a backup version, but it was still the same character. And it was an excellent episode with a powerful message.
It really only needed three major changes, beyond placement.
1. Set it in 2155.
2. Make Talia Shran's niece.
3. Don't kill Trip.
EDIT: QUOTE: "I still argue TATV would be bad even with tweaks because it wasn't even about any of the characters on the show."
It wouldn't have been among the best, probably a C, maybe C-minus bit of fanservice. But most fans would appreciate the creative way they managed to put Riker and Troi into the series.
Last edited:
Those are good starts. The big one, though, should be to not have Riker and Troi in it. There was no reason to include "The Pegasus" story within this. It actually undercuts and contradicts a previously excellent episode.
I actually disagree... I appreciate a bit of fanservice here and there, like Quark on that TNG episode (talking vouchers with Riker) or Riker popping up in Death Wish. And I especially like the idea of sticking Riker into as many Trek series as possible, a la John Ratzenberger.
I love seeing Riker in other shows, too. But if you are going to have the character, and it's going to be more than a cameo, don't make it contradict... or at least, not undercut... another great episode to make it happen.
Have it be while he's on the Titan, since they wouldn't need to try (and fail) to de-age him and Troi almost 12 years. Or if they are hell bent on using TNG era specifically, there's a LOT of time between the episodes we saw. Have it be a dilemma during that time.
No it wasn't.
The "send off" or rather "kick out" she got in The Gift was crap, a badly written story but the kick out she got in that s**t episode in season 6 was horrible. An insulting, badly written and filmed load of s**t.
I’m fine with the entire set up of TATV except for killing Trip and having it be the series finale.
It is kinda hinkey though to pretend Frakes and Sirtis still look like they did in TNG. Not just their ages but the hair styles, ill fitting uniforms (Sirtis way too tight, Frakes almost comically loose), etc…
Keep Trip alive and make it a “very special episode” ala “Flashback” and “Trials and Tribbleations” and it would be fine.
It is kinda hinkey though to pretend Frakes and Sirtis still look like they did in TNG. Not just their ages but the hair styles, ill fitting uniforms (Sirtis way too tight, Frakes almost comically loose), etc…
Keep Trip alive and make it a “very special episode” ala “Flashback” and “Trials and Tribbleations” and it would be fine.
agree to disagree. I thought she was one of the more forgettable characters anyway so having her return as angry and vengeful didn’t bother me.
It didn't because you didn't like the character.
But for us who did like the character, that episode was very insulting.
Not to mention that it was a very bad episode. Badly written, badly acted, badly filmed and badly produced.
And it didn't have any impact on the omngoing story itself (Fortunately!)
It should never have been made.
Sure, I prefer real Riker (or Tom Riker) rather than yet another ancestor like they do with Brent Spiner.
Just not the final episode.
Hell Enterprise went through years with the "temporal cold war" stuff going on, easy enough to bring in a future Riker, or O'Brien, or Chekov, or Kes as part of shenanigans, or have the NX01 travel into the future.
He read the script. No acting needed.
THAT I can agree with. Riker and Troi would still be there, and they would look the right age.
Wholeheartedly agree. I know we disagree on "The Gift", but at least it gave Kes a meaningful departure. One rule of sequels is never ruin a really good original ending by slotting in a way less satisfying one (looking at you, Men in Black 2 and Miss Congeniality 2).
Do you mean, instead of in 2161 (or so) or instead of in 2370 (or so)?
Against the second, I'd argue that Living Witness is quite a good episode, even though it is 'not really' about Our Heroes (except the doc) but only some recreations of them, and is set in the 31st century. So if the rest of the story is strong, that's not necessarily a problem in my view.
Should you mean the first, I'd happen to agree with you. That is, I would have loved to see the birth of the Federation included in this series, but not in this haphazard 'we want to include this in the final even if it's only an isolated scene' kind of way.
Last edited:
I never said I disliked the character. Not finding someone memorable does not equal hate. I mean, outside of Janeway, Seven, the Doctor and MAYBE Neelix I don’t think any of the Voyager characters were really memorable. But I don’t dislike them, even Chakotay who it seems EVERYONE hates.
again, it’s an agree to disagree. I thought the episode was fine. And at least it wasn’t rushed like The Gift.
Let me rephrase, based on an idea put forth by @Farscape One
1. Set it in 2155, with the Riker/Troi scenes set in 2180 or so. Maybe Riker could be dealing with his first really thorny command decision.
1. Set it in 2155, with the Riker/Troi scenes set in 2180 or so. Maybe Riker could be dealing with his first really thorny command decision.
Have it set on the Enterprise-E in 2379, with Riker finally deciding whether or not he should accept his own command when offered the Titan.
I don't hate any of them either. I have an extreme casual interest or disinterest. There is nothing personal to me with the characters of Voyager. Tom gets the closest, and Torres second closest. The rest are ones that I know a lot about but don't feel anything about. Just disinterested.
And I think many fans who get their favorites in poor episodes forget that not everything is love/hate, especially for writers. Writers work to make drama, not to make favorite characters.
There needs to be more than one doctor on board simply because someone might want a second opinion....
The Enterprise Incident - why would Starfleet not use trained intelligence officers to capture the cloaking device? The in universe plot relies on the Romulans not blowing up the Enterprise and the commander taking a liking to Spock. Plus other things but well acted.
A bit silly really
A bit silly really
Similar threads
- Locked
