I’m guessing they didn’t want to pay extra for established characters?
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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I’m guessing they didn’t want to pay extra for established characters?
I know I'd brag about having been seen in a Star Trek movie but, yeah, it's gotta be awkward being "shadowy woman on top of horse and on a hill too far away to make out much detail." I mean, sure, you got to be in Star Trek but...how could you prove it to most people.
Interesting, Trek-heavy bio!
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Lynn_Salvatori
Jimmy Doohan is cooler than everyone in the world in this segment. He's even cooler than TMP Scotty. And almost nobody is cooler than TMP Scotty.
Not... enough... LIKES!
Great conceptually. Mr. Ellison would have gotten royalties, yes, for inventing the character? Or would have had to negotiate to allow Paramount to use her. That would have been fun.
Or Bibi Besch choosing not to return to the role and the producers not wanting to recast Carol. Cost also works since Bibi Besch would have been a more expensive get than using the stuntwoman who played Antonia.
As much as I wish it was Carol Marcus instead of Antonia, it just doesn't work.
In TWOK, David says, "Remember that overgrown boy scout you used to hang around with? That's exactly the kind of man that would... " before Carol cuts him off and says, "Listen, kiddo. Jim Kirk was many things, but he was never a boy scout."
So David knows Kirk. He doesn't know that Kirk's his father, but he knows Kirk. "So what's wrong with that?," you ask. If Kirk was with Antonia nine years before GEN, that's a year before TWOK. After Kirk and David finally see each other, and Carol shows up, Kirk asks her, "Is that David?" Meaning that Kirk probably hasn't seen David since he was a kid.
So it unfortunately doesn't line up. it makes more sense if Kirk was trying to become part of David's life and part of Carol's life again if it was between TOS and TMP, when he was an Admiral and permanently stationed in one location. Things don't work out between Kirk and Carol a second time, and that takes away any motivation Kirk has to still be an Admiral after he gets sick of the job and misses being Captain.
In TWOK, David says, "Remember that overgrown boy scout you used to hang around with? That's exactly the kind of man that would... " before Carol cuts him off and says, "Listen, kiddo. Jim Kirk was many things, but he was never a boy scout."
So David knows Kirk. He doesn't know that Kirk's his father, but he knows Kirk. "So what's wrong with that?," you ask. If Kirk was with Antonia nine years before GEN, that's a year before TWOK. After Kirk and David finally see each other, and Carol shows up, Kirk asks her, "Is that David?" Meaning that Kirk probably hasn't seen David since he was a kid.
So it unfortunately doesn't line up. it makes more sense if Kirk was trying to become part of David's life and part of Carol's life again if it was between TOS and TMP, when he was an Admiral and permanently stationed in one location. Things don't work out between Kirk and Carol a second time, and that takes away any motivation Kirk has to still be an Admiral after he gets sick of the job and misses being Captain.
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Interesting....never thought it was meant to appear a deliberate choice, seemed McCoy was just desperately fleeing everyone in a paranoid state.
About Antonia - strangest part was having her ride horseback in that long filmy red outfit - same dress Fenna wore in DS9 "Second Sight." Not sure which was released first, maybe both happened the same year.
I don't see either how Carol could have been in the Nexus.
Kirk knew there was NO chance he could ever have a life with her. It just wasn't gonna happen, like ever. Whoever Antonia was, they must have had a shot at it. The shot that he and Carol could never have.
Kirk knew there was NO chance he could ever have a life with her. It just wasn't gonna happen, like ever. Whoever Antonia was, they must have had a shot at it. The shot that he and Carol could never have.
You're assuming that they wrote the same script and crossed out Carol and wrote in Antonia (which to be fair is what they did with Spock / Scott and Chekov / McCoy). If it had been Carol they would have written it differently. For one thing she would have had a scene.
I always thought the "this is the day I decided to return to Starfleet" was a terrible jump. I mean, maybe that's what Kirk did. But when? And this was the first we're hearing of it? So most of your audience that just went to the movies tonight and happened to pick that Star Trek movie doesn't care if he said "This was the day I decided to break it off" or "This was the day that that big bird broke through the window" or "Ah, Thursday!" But the chunk of the audience they're also writing for (us) just tuned out the rest of the scene because now we're thinking "Wait, is this between TMP and TWOK? Did this happen before TUC? How old is he supposed to be now?" And of course "Why is this not Edith or Carol?!?"
Heck, the casual audience is probably thinking "God, Trekkies. I've never heard of this Antonia but she's probably from episode 37 or something and they're all going nuts right now. Was she one of the space hippies? Captain Kirk, a green skinned girl in every port, right?"
"...could have been"? Isn't the Nexus supposed to be a "whatever you want" thing? If not then no wonder Kirk and Picard walked away so easily.
Maybe this was just an El-Aurian problem? Humans are nearly immune because it's really just not that big a deal. El-Aurians either spend their lives trying to forget it or become genocidal maniacs. Nice gateway for time travel though.
My guess is, Antonia was supposed to share Kirk's love of horses, dogs and the Great Outdoors (like Shatner in real life) in his Nexus civilian fantasy....which is why it made no sense for her to ride in that strappy evening gown.
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I'll tell you straight out what I was thinking. I remember going to see the Star Trek movies pretty vividly, whether I thought it was a good one, a bad one, or somewhere in the middle. They were a Big Deal to me.
Lord Garth in 1994: "I have the Star Trek Chronology, I have the Star Trek Encyclopedia, I know all this by heart. When was this? This is great! Kirk and Picard in the same scene!"
Kirk: "Nine years ago... "
Lord Garth in 1994: "2371 minus 78 equals 2293. 2293 minus 9 equals 2284. The Chronology says TWOK was in 2285. This takes place before TWOK! Kirk's riding a horse! This is great!"
That's what was going on in 15-year-old Lord Garth's head. Unlike other people, I cut straight to it. I don't sit around trying to be confused on purpose. To be frank, I was devouring all this shit when I should've been more focused on my classes. But that's a whole other story.
I didn't like the way they killed Kirk, it made me tear up a little bit, and that among other things was one of my problems with the film. Not, "When the fuck did Kirk go out with ____?"
DS9's "SECOND SIGHT" was a season 2 episode, which aired at the same time as TNG season 7. So definitely before GENERATIONS.
Interesting....it seemed for everyone in the Nexus no particular belief was necessary.
The J.M. Dillard novelization describes how Dr. Soran's Nexus experience was with his now-dead wife and children and how he was in the arms of bliss having been reunited with them when the Enterprise-B's transporter beam snatched him from their presence and deposited him in that ship's Sickbay. The Borg had recently killed them and he was still not only mourning them but fleeing for his own safety.
In the novelization of Generations, one Nexus fantasy has Kirk getting ready for his wedding to Carol Marcus, with David Marcus giving his mother away, all the Enterprise friends present, including Spock with a date….also encounters with other women from Kirk's past, like saving Edith Keeler AND preserving the future, etc.
Well, yeah, McCoy was zonked out on cordrazine, but he still had the presence of mind to recognize the Guardian for what it was - an escape route.
In the end, Edith simply didn't belong in the future. That's why the Guardian couldn't take her there.
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