DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

[Christopher]

Well, my understanding of the phrase "conspiracy theory" has been different, especially since I've on occasion heard it used against what under Ovation's definition would constitute plausible speculation in an attempt to dismiss it without counter-evidence.

But that's the point -- just because someone claims something is a conspiracy theory doesn't mean you have to believe them. You need to apply critical thinking to that claim too. You need to consider the claims and arguments on every side and assess them on their merits. Never trust anyone blindly, including the people telling you to mistrust others.

(Whenever I see a story -- usually one with a conspiracy-driven plot -- where a character tells the hero "Trust no one!," I want to hear the hero reply, "Oh, yeah? Then why should I trust you when you say that?")

And it's the flipside of what I've been saying. You should neither accept something or dismiss it before you have evidence. Don't trust anyone who insists that you should do one or the other. If there's no evidence, just don't decide. Keep an open mind until you learn more. Wisdom is about recognizing what we don't know.

 

[theenglish]

If you're referring to WB, the only reason the studio ever had any association with Gunn in relation to a superhero project was due to his MCU work.

WB hired him when he had been released from the Guardians because of tweets or things he posted on social media. Sure, it was based on his Marvel work, but I also felt he was hired for the spectacle of it--he was having a huge moment of popularity despite those tweets making headlines at the time.

 

[JD]

You shouldn’t.

Plausible speculation, in any case, is what you’re each really describing. And such speculation is easily distinguishable from “conspiracy theories” as the latter almost always lack evidence and logic.

I’ll apologize in advance for the pedantry, but I’ve just spent the week grading essays for a methodology course in our programme that focuses on critical thinking and research, and we use “conspiracy theories” as the primary example of what happens when critical thinking skills are not well developed.

OK, it does sound like that's closer to my thinking.
I always follow any evidence, and if it proves my speculation wrong, I'm more than willing to accept it and change my mind.

If you're referring to WB, the only reason the studio ever had any association with Gunn in relation to a superhero project was due to his MCU work. That's all. When WB openly stated their desire to find "Their own Kevin Feige", and tapped Gunn, there's no longer room for coincidences about their interests and the type of MCU feel they wanted in DC movies going forward.

When they originally hired him sure, but I have feeling this job had more to do with them having already had a working relationship with him, and being happy with the work he did for them.

For instance, just yesterday I was looking into the question of whether it was okay to keep using the low-cholesterol butter substitute I use or whether its health claims were exaggerated and it would be better just to switch to butter. I found a site saying the substitute was terrible and unhealthy, but it was written with intense emotion and using scare words like "Frankenfoods," so I didn't trust it. The writer was obviously intensely emotional about the subject, and thus they were more likely to try to twist the evidence to fit their strong bias than to offer a conclusion based honestly upon the evidence. They also wanted to use emotive rhetoric to scare and anger people rather than giving them information they could consider rationally, which made them even more untrustworthy. Conversely, I didn't bother to click on the links that came from the product's manufacturer, because they obviously have a vested interest in convincing me their product is good and thus their assertions cannot be trusted to be objective. The sites I was most willing to listen to were the ones without a dog in the fight, things like consumer news sources that looked at both sides of the issue and offered a balanced report without an obvious agenda or fearmongering rhetoric. They pretty much said that there's nothing wrong with using either butter or the substitute in moderation, and both have different advantages, so it's up to the individual.

Just out of curiosity, is the substitute you've been using non-dairy?

 

[Ovation]

so I'll wait if Ovation can clarify.

Having read through the thread, Christopher has thoroughly addressed any point I might have raised (he has my thanks for saving me the work), so I’ll just leave it at that.

 

[Christopher]

Just out of curiosity, is the substitute you've been using non-dairy?

Yeah, Smart Balance, which I guess is basically margarine but nobody calls it that anymore because it has a bad reputation, or something. I usually use the olive oil variety, though they were out of it last time. (Turns out the regular kind spreads better, but doesn't taste better.)

Is there such a thing as a butter substitute that is dairy-based? That seems like a contradiction in terms.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

When they originally hired him sure, but I have feeling this job had more to do with them having already had a working relationship with him, and being happy with the work he did for them.

The point was that Gunn being known for his MCU work is the reason he ever worked for DC, and ultimately, why he was given his current job. The nature of his new position--what WB wanted that person to be as a mirror to Feige--establishes that. There's not much in the way of evidence behind the theory that Gunn's non-MCU work had any bearing on his being hired.

 

[JD]

Yes, he probably got the The Suicide Squad gig because of the Guadians movies, but that's seperate from his new gig.

Yeah, Smart Balance, which I guess is basically margarine but nobody calls it that anymore because it has a bad reputation, or something. I usually use the olive oil variety, though they were out of it last time. (Turns out the regular kind spreads better, but doesn't taste better.)

Is there such a thing as a butter substitute that is dairy-based? That seems like a contradiction in terms.

I'm honestly not sure.
I hate to be one of those vegans, but I've gotta ask, did the wellbeing of the cows who's milk is used in the butter play any part in your decision. The dairy industry's treatment of it's cows is absolutely horrible.

 

[Samurai8472]

The next trailer for "The Flash" will drop during the Super Bowl, which marks Warner's return to the game after a 17 year absence

Warner Bros. to Return to Super Bowl After 17-Year Absence With 'The Flash' Promo (Exclusive)

 

[The Realist]

The next trailer for "The Flash" will drop during the Super Bowl, which marks Warner's return to the game after a 17 year absence

Warner Bros. to Return to Super Bowl After 17-Year Absence With 'The Flash' Promo (Exclusive)

Huh. Not till February, eh?

I care naught for the sports ball, but I am eager to see more of The Flash. Hope this trailer has some Supergirl goodness (Zod and Faora, too).

 

[Christopher]

I hate to be one of those vegans, but I've gotta ask, did the wellbeing of the cows who's milk is used in the butter play any part in your decision. The dairy industry's treatment of it's cows is absolutely horrible.

I don't know anything about that. I've used margarine all my life because my family did, just using butter when I ate out, and I only recently heard anything about it being unhealthy, so I looked into it, and my decision not to change what I'm used to is simply inertia. I've never eschewed dairy otherwise.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Wanted to slide this link about some ànimated DC that is supposed to be taken off HBO Max soon

https://thedirect.com/article/hbo-max-dc-shows-removal

Is it industry standard to pay for shows simply available on streaming? It seems like we have the technology to do "pay per view"... but rather than the viewer literally being nickelodeon and dimed, the streaming services could pay for the shows the Spotify or YouTube does for content creators.

Is this not possible???

Also of note... another example of why some of us think WB is still crazy... according to the linked article, the John Wick movies are leaving HBO Max. That seems like a boneheaded move, considering John Wick 4 is coming out soon. Seems like these movies SHOULD be featured so that it generates hype for the movies when it comes out. Seems like it would be more cost efficient and effective than other marketing. And couldn't they add some kind of ad at the very end to hyp John Wick 4??

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Wanted to slide this link about some ànimated DC that is supposed to be taken off HBO Max soon

https://thedirect.com/article/hbo-max-dc-shows-removal

Is it industry standard to pay for shows simply available on streaming? It seems like we have the technology to do "pay per view"... but rather than the viewer literally being nickelodeon and dimed, the streaming services could pay for the shows the Spotify or YouTube does for content creators.

Is this not possible???

Also of note... another example of why some of us think WB is still crazy... according to the linked article, the John Wick movies are leaving HBO Max. That seems like a boneheaded move, considering John Wick 4 is coming out soon. Seems like these movies SHOULD be featured so that it generates hype for the movies when it comes out. Seems like it would be more cost efficient and effective than other marketing. And couldn't they add some kind of ad at the very end to hyp John Wick 4??

Movies like John Wick come and go from streaming services every month, that's just normal. I imagine it's a combination of what they have to pay, what someone else is willing to pay and how long they contracted to license the project.

I tried researching about removing their own shows and things and how residuals work and it's obviously obtuse trying to look this stuff up as a layperson but it seems in cases there's a minimum residual payment that needs to be made. Without seeing the books and all I wonder if it's possible for these payments to negate the benefit of having an exhaustive library for some of the odd titles which may not get enough eyeballs to offset the minimums.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Yes, he probably got the The Suicide Squad gig because of the Guadians movies, but that's seperate from his new gig.

JD, Gunn is the same man with the same MCU history. He's judged and hired--to be WB's stated "...own Kevin Feige" for that reason alone. His non-MCU work is hardly (if at all) an influence on making him the head of DC movies.

Heavy on the wishful thinking @ 3:32 - 4:54:
SUPERMAN & BLACK ADAM MAY RETURN As Teased By James Gunn

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The idea of adapting Crisis on Infinite Earths has been tossed around for several years, including the notion that it was one way Snyder would have completed a first phase of DC films. Of course, that never happened, so the COIE (or Infinite Crisis) concept remains untouched as an proper movie adaptation and could be used. That said, the idea of Cavill & Johnson returning for a multiverse-type plot (yes, the multiverse door will be kicked wide open in The Flash) is as noted above, heavy on the wishful thinking, and fans should not hold out hope for either actor being lured back after recent events.

In any case, Gunn will make his first project announcement next month.

 

[Set Harth]

Of course, this scene in BvS is basically ripped off from the COIE comics:

 

[Mr. Adventure]

JD, Gunn is the same man with the same MCU history. He's judged and hired--to be WB's stated "...own Kevin Feige" for that reason alone. His non-MCU work is hardly (if at all) an influence on making him the head of DC movies.

Are you basing all this just on the Kevin Feige statement? I always assumed that meant they want someone who would be in that kind of role at DC not that they literally wanted to make MCU movies with the DC franchise. Though given their history of chasing Marvel, I guess who knows.

Gunn created a revival property from a badly received one at DC with The Suicide Squad and then spun that off into a new IP in another medium with Peacemaker. That seems more pertinent to his new role than making Guardian movies at Marvel. I would think both his Marvel and DC experience would've been factors they'd have considered in his hiring.

Actually, as to that "own Kevin Feige", was that ever directly stated by them? I have not been able to find the reference to that, I see articles claiming WB/DC is looking for their own Kevin Feige, but not an actual reference to them saying that. The closest I can find is Zaslav saying "We’ve restructured the business where we’re going to focus – where there will be a team with a 10-year plan focusing just on DC. It’s very similar to the structure that Alan Horn and Bob Iger put together very effectively with Kevin Feige at Disney."

 

[Nombrecomun]

His non-MCU work is hardly (if at all) an influence on making him the head of DC movies.

I agree but I do wonder if Brightburn might have played a tiny factor. Obviously the Marvel GOTG movies are the bigger variables in the equation.

Brightburn wasn't great but the idea was fantastic and somewhat goes along with the less than optimistic portrayal(for lack of a better term) WB has of its current DC heroes. To me, Brightburn feels very Snyderesque in the idea of being all 'dark'. That may have attracted some attention.

 

[YLu]

Are you basing all this just on the Kevin Feige statement? I always assumed that meant they want someone who would be in that kind of role at DC not that they literally wanted to make MCU movies with the DC franchise. Though given their history of chasing Marvel, I guess who knows.

Agreed. The point of the comparison is Kevin Feige's responsibility and role, not his creative sensibilities. It could very well be that WB/D also wants to mimic the MCU on the creative and aesthetic front, given its overwhelming success, but the statement neither points to or away from that.

Gunn created a revival property from a badly received one at DC with The Suicide Squad and then spun that off into a new IP in another medium with Peacemaker. That seems more pertinent to his new role than making Guardian movies at Marvel. I would think both his Marvel and DC experience would've been factors they'd have considered in his hiring.

Yep. I see no reason to think his previous work on DC IP wasn't a factor when picking him to run DC IP.

 

[The Knappos]

Gunn is WB’s/DC’s what, second or third ‘Kevin Feige’ person? They’ve been looking for ages.

 

[FPAlpha]

Gunn is WB’s/DC’s what, second or third ‘Kevin Feige’ person? They’ve been looking for ages.

Not really, they had Snyder and that's it and he was not the overall creative boss but a director chosen to make key movies in the DCEU. Had it not been for the death of his daughter Gunn might not have the job today because Snyder already had plans for the DECU as evidenced by Justice League. After his exit it all went to crap basically and the change of WB ownership put the final nail in the coffin.

If the Snyder universe would have been successful is anyones guess, i would have liked to see evil Superman in that alternate future but that's in the past.

I just hope Gunn is pro enough to adapt his style to the different characters - Superman or Batman just aren't MCU style one liner machines. I like his Suicide Squad and especially Peacemaker but this was right up his alley, other heroes and teams need a different approach but then again Feige doesn't direct and chooses the writers and directors so if Gunn has a lucky hand in this like Feige we could see an awesome resurgence but it'll be until 2030 before we can have an actual informed opinion ( at least 2-3 years to get the first film out and the follow ups in production so by 2030 we may have 3-4 movies out).

 

[Christopher]

Not really, they had Snyder and that's it.

Snyder was not the equivalent of Feige. Feige is the president and chief creative officer of Marvel Studios. I believe his closest DC/WB counterpart was Geoff Johns, although Johns left his post in 2018. I'm not sure who took his place. But Snyder was not in charge of the whole studio; he was just one of the directors and producers working together to set its early direction.