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DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

I'm sorry, but how do you differentiate between conspiracy theories and plausible speculation? If conspiracy theories almost always lack evidence and logic, then that means that some conspiracy theories are indeed based on evidence and logic. So, there must be more to differentiate between the two, doesn't it?
 
I'm sorry, but how do you differentiate between conspiracy theories and plausible speculation? If conspiracy theories almost always lack evidence and logic, then that means that some conspiracy theories are indeed based on evidence and logic. So, there must be more to differentiate between the two, doesn't it?

The way to differentiate between valid and invalid theories is to test them against the evidence. In the absence of evidence, the rational thing to do is just to wait and see, rather than feeling obligated to pick a side. The smart answer is to admit you don't know the answer, that the jury's out until you learn more. The wrong thing to do, the thing conspiracy theorists do, is to try to invent an answer to fill the void.

Also, a way to distinguish between rational arguments and irrational ones is to observe how the proponents of a theory react to evidence that conflicts with it. Rational observers will change their minds if the evidence contradicts their theory; for instance, Walter Cronkite was skeptical of the Warren Commission's conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and investigated expecting to find a deeper conspiracy, but the evidence convinced him that he was wrong and Oswald had, in fact, acted alone. Conspiracy theorists will take contradictory evidence as "proof" that the evidence itself is a lie and will invent new layers to the conspiracy to "explain" why the evidence doesn't fit their argument. They will complicate the theory to ridiculous extremes rather than simply admit they were wrong about something.
 
The way to differentiate between valid and invalid theories is to test them against the evidence. In the absence of evidence, the rational thing to do is just to wait and see, rather than feeling obligated to pick a side. The smart answer is to admit you don't know the answer, that the jury's out until you learn more. The wrong thing to do, the thing conspiracy theorists do, is to try to invent an answer to fill the void.

Also, a way to distinguish between rational arguments and irrational ones is to observe how the proponents of a theory react to evidence that conflicts with it. Rational observers will change their minds if the evidence contradicts their theory; for instance, Walter Cronkite was skeptical of the Warren Commission's conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and investigated expecting to find a deeper conspiracy, but the evidence convinced him that he was wrong and Oswald had, in fact, acted alone. Conspiracy theorists will take contradictory evidence as "proof" that the evidence itself is a lie and will invent new layers to the conspiracy to "explain" why the evidence doesn't fit their argument. They will complicate the theory to ridiculous extremes rather than simply admit they were wrong about something.
So, basically, you're judging it based on the person's attitude, instead of the piece itself, did I get that right?
 
So, basically, you're judging it based on the person's attitude, instead of the piece itself, did I get that right?

Not "attitude." That's emotion, and it gets in the way. What matters is evidence and reason. If it's clear that the advocates of a theory are ignoring or distorting evidence to fit their desired belief, then they're guided by ego rather than evidence, and their arguments must be taken with appropriate skepticism. Trust the arguments whose proponents are guided by the evidence, rather than hostile to it.

In other words, don't trust people trying to prove themselves right. Trust the people who try to prove themselves wrong and fail. Or who admit they were wrong and change their minds in response to the evidence, like Cronkite.
 
Deadpool 3 should have a joke where they bring in Cavil since DC don't want him but then have nothing for him to do.
That would be laugh out loud funny. Kind of like the Wayne's World 2 Charlton Heston joke but in reverse, where Henry comes into the merc bar and Reynolds says "Oh! Oh, hi. Sorry, we already recast Weasel <sideways look>. Why don't you come and sit down here and we'll call you if we need you."
 
Not "attitude." That's emotion, and it gets in the way. What matters is evidence and reason. If it's clear that the advocates of a theory are ignoring or distorting evidence to fit their desired belief, then they're guided by ego rather than evidence, and their arguments must be taken with appropriate skepticism. Trust the arguments whose proponents are guided by the evidence, rather than hostile to it.

In other words, don't trust people trying to prove themselves right. Trust the people who try to prove themselves wrong and fail. Or who admit they were wrong and change their minds in response to the evidence, like Cronkite.
Still, you're defining a conspiracy theorist, but not a conspiracy theory.
 
Still, you're defining a conspiracy theorist, but not a conspiracy theory.

I question whether that's a meaningful distinction. Conspiracies do sometimes happen, yes, but the term "conspiracy theory" has a particular kind of baggage attached to it. It implies paranoia and a predisposition to invent conspiracies to explain things, rather than following evidence to discover an actual conspiracy.

What Ovation said is quite right. The important thing is critical thinking, and those who practice critical thinking can tell when someone else's arguments are not based in critical thinking. That's not about the person, it's about the method of their argument and whether it's legitimate. Whatever rumors and assertions we're hearing are coming from people, rather than just materializing out of thin air. So it's important to assess those people's credibility, just as a lawyer would try to establish or challenge the credibility of a witness, or a historian would consider the ways a written or oral account might be biased and inaccurate and compare it against other sources before trusting it. That's not a personal attack, because critical thinking demands applying the same standard of skepticism to everyone. What we're talking about is how to assess whether a source's assertions are credible or not.
 
Who also worked on two productions for them, and I have a feeling that had a lot more to do with him getting the gig than his work Marvel.

If you're referring to WB, the only reason the studio ever had any association with Gunn in relation to a superhero project was due to his MCU work. That's all. When WB openly stated their desire to find "Their own Kevin Feige", and tapped Gunn, there's no longer room for coincidences about their interests and the type of MCU feel they wanted in DC movies going forward.
 
I question whether that's a meaningful distinction. Conspiracies do sometimes happen, yes, but the term "conspiracy theory" has a particular kind of baggage attached to it. It implies paranoia and a predisposition to invent conspiracies to explain things, rather than following evidence to discover an actual conspiracy.

What Ovation said is quite right. The important thing is critical thinking, and those who practice critical thinking can tell when someone else's arguments are not based in critical thinking. That's not about the person, it's about the method of their argument and whether it's legitimate. Whatever rumors and assertions we're hearing are coming from people, rather than just materializing out of thin air. So it's important to assess those people's credibility, just as a lawyer would try to establish or challenge the credibility of a witness, or a historian would consider the ways a written or oral account might be biased and inaccurate and compare it against other sources before trusting it. That's not a personal attack, because critical thinking demands applying the same standard of skepticism to everyone. What we're talking about is how to assess whether a source's assertions are credible or not.
I still don't see a meaningful distinction between a conspiracy theory and what @Ovation called plausible speculation, as the latter does not have any hard evidence, either. My assertion, for instance, where he specifically objected to my calling it a conspiracy theory and instead called it plausible speculation, does not have any real proof. I mean, he literally called it speculation. And plausibility appears a very subjective criteria when dealing with speculation, and subjectivity means the difference between the two is in flux. I may be wrong, so I'll wait if Ovation can clarify.
And, of course, the credibility issue is very subjective, as well, and can easily be used against the truth. As all politicians know, if you can't truthfully argue against a narrative you don't like, it's easier to attack the credibility of the source of the narrative.
 
I still don't see a meaningful distinction between a conspiracy theory and what @Ovation called plausible speculation, as the latter does not have any hard evidence, either.

As I said, the term "conspiracy theory" carries the implication of a specific mindset. The difference is how the proponents respond to a challenge. Someone offering a plausible speculation will keep an open mind and change their opinion if new evidence disagrees with it. They admit it's just conjecture and don't invest in it as something they need to believe. A conspiracy theorist will double down on their belief and see the contradictory evidence as proof of an even greater conspiracy to hide the truth. The reason it's called a conspiracy theory is because conspiracy is the theory. It's not just a theory that a conspiracy is happening. It's a mentality that defaults to conspiracy as the preferred theory for explaining anything, and that is therefore immune to rational counterargument because anything that conflicts with the conspiracy theory will automatically be interpreted as a product of the conspiracy itself. If your guy didn't win the election, the election must've been tampered with. If a hundred independent recounts confirm the votes were not tampered with, then all hundred separate groups must have been agents of the Deep State. And so on.

But we're getting off the subject. Your question was how to distinguish between a valid and an invalid theory in the absence of evidence. My answer is that you don't. You don't need to rush to pick an answer before you have evidence to base it on. You just keep an open mind and wait for more input. This is what conspiracy theorists don't do. A rational speculator will see lack of evidence as reason to assume nothing. A conspiracy theorist will see lack of evidence as a license to assume their wild guesses are correct. So don't do that. Don't assume you have to decide right away whether a hypothesis is right or wrong. Just wait and see.


And, of course, the credibility issue is very subjective, as well, and can easily be used against the truth. As all politicians know, if you can't truthfully argue against a narrative you don't like, it's easier to attack the credibility of the source of the narrative.

No, credibility is not subjective to a rational observer who knows how to assess claims critically in light of evidence, reason, and evaluation of the source's potential bias. Yes, any demagogue can attack the credibility of an opposing viewpoint, but a listener who knows how to think critically will be able to penetrate the flaws in that demagogue's rhetoric and identify the agenda behind their arguments, so that you can tell their attack on others' crediblity is itself not credible and is merely a deflection from their own dishonesty. You can tell the difference. This is a fundamental part of how historians interrogate historical sources, how competent journalists assess the legitimacy of their sources (as opposed to "news" shows that just want talking heads to shout at each other for ratings), how juries assess the credibility of testimony, etc. It's not just one person's word against another. You can assess whether their arguments make sense, whether they have an agenda behind them, whatever.

For instance, just yesterday I was looking into the question of whether it was okay to keep using the low-cholesterol butter substitute I use or whether its health claims were exaggerated and it would be better just to switch to butter. I found a site saying the substitute was terrible and unhealthy, but it was written with intense emotion and using scare words like "Frankenfoods," so I didn't trust it. The writer was obviously intensely emotional about the subject, and thus they were more likely to try to twist the evidence to fit their strong bias than to offer a conclusion based honestly upon the evidence. They also wanted to use emotive rhetoric to scare and anger people rather than giving them information they could consider rationally, which made them even more untrustworthy. Conversely, I didn't bother to click on the links that came from the product's manufacturer, because they obviously have a vested interest in convincing me their product is good and thus their assertions cannot be trusted to be objective. The sites I was most willing to listen to were the ones without a dog in the fight, things like consumer news sources that looked at both sides of the issue and offered a balanced report without an obvious agenda or fearmongering rhetoric. They pretty much said that there's nothing wrong with using either butter or the substitute in moderation, and both have different advantages, so it's up to the individual.

One of my history professors liked to say that anyone who claims to be absolutely certain of anything is trying to sell you something. The people you can trust are the ones who don't insist they're undeniably right and you have to believe them at all costs. Everyone has a bias; honest people try to recognize their own biases and disclose them so that others can take them into account.
 
Well, my understanding of the phrase "conspiracy theory" has been different, especially since I've on occasion heard it used against what under Ovation's definition would constitute plausible speculation in an attempt to dismiss it without counter-evidence. But Wikipedia appears to agree with your definition, so I'm willing to accept it.
 
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