HBO's "Westworld", starring Anthony Hopkins/produced by J.J. Abrams

[Gaith]

Noted: the Blu-ray of Westworld S4 is currently selling for $24 on Amazon, whereas the first season of House of the Dragon is selling for $50. To be fair, the latter has two more episodes, so a value-adjusted fourth season of Westworld would be listed for $30. Still, it's an interesting data point in capturing what HBO thinks people are willing to pay for the sci-fi show's last outing.

 

[Owain Taggart]

So, finished watching the season, and while it was a step up, and more diverse and interesting, from season 3, it's still very much incomprehensible from beginning to end.

I feel one of the show's major drawbacks is in its execution. The concept of hosts is a fun one, to a point. Where it falls apart is in its endless layering upon layering to the point that the viewer can't latch onto anything concrete, and their care for the characters start to evaporate. The line, "You're not real, you're a host" was spoken so often, it had almost become a tagline. It doesn't stop there though, as apparently there are layers upon layers of their worlds and you're never sure if world is real. It loses meaning and effectiveness when done so often, almost as if it's 'The TV Show that cried wolf'. And ultimately, for all the violence it depicts, it doesn't really end up saying much.

 

[Gaith]

Okay, this thread has finally gotten me curious enough to check out what S4 was all about. Does it sound worth the eight-hour journey?

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... Nah. Serac and Rehoboam ended up being dud villains in S3, but at least they were a clear and interesting opposing force for a while. This S4, however, just sounds like a slog of familiar plot points and familiar robot half-characters, with S5 promising more of the same. I can't fault WB Discovery for pressing CTRL+Alt+Delete on the series.

 

[Tuskin38]

Control+Alt+Delete just opens the options menu

 

[Owain Taggart]

This S4, however, just sounds like a slog of familiar plot points and familiar robot half-characters, with S5 promising more of the same.

That pretty much describes it. Everything is surface drivel. There's no depth to anyone or anything, and there are no stakes. The 'You're not real, you're a host' trick is used at least 3 times this season, on different characters and they also do it with the worlds.

Came across a good video that summed up my points about Westworld:

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[Owain Taggart]

HBO shows are (and should be) for the most part sophisticated

Agreed. I think with HBO we expect a certain prestige. Or at least used to be this way in the realm of pay networks. As for Westworld, season 1 was the best by far. It just got more and more pointless.

 

[wayoung]

Agreed. I think with HBO we expect a certain prestige. Or at least used to be this way in the realm of pay networks. As for Westworld, season 1 was the best by far. It just got more and more pointless.

I do respect that the writers realized Season 2 failed because it was a retread and went on a new direction season 3. And then when that failed went in another new direction season 4. But they were all just scrambles, trying for reasons to keep making the show. 1 and done would have been the best for it artistically, just a slight tweak to the finale.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Yeah, they also kept trying to go bigger with each season. But they had a limited amount of tricks that they kept using. There were glimpses of greatness, but so few times where it actually felt inspired. The idea that there were multiple themed parks, I would have liked seeing more of, and in fact could have replaced the current-day or future setting.

When the idea set in that Dolores was going to rebel, and we started seeing other parks, the thought I had was that maybe there would be parallel Dolores characters within each of the parks that would converge and meet up at the doorway to form a mass rebellion.. When we see the 1930's world in Season 4, there are hints that this could be the case, as the situation plays out in a mirror fashion, but overall it never plays out that way. And the whole Dolores thing never quite gets anywhere. The whole show ended up being quite a jumbled mess.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

My problem with season 4 was the major plot points didn’t seem earned. Season 2 was a step down from season 1, but it gave me stakes I was invested in, and effectively built up not only the escape of the hosts into the intersect, but the murder of Elsie followed by replacement of Charlotte. Two very satisfying payoffs.

In season 4, the conquering and subsequent genocide of the human race felt much less earned. The characters we were invested in, Caleb and Maeve, had their arcs ended abruptly in an unsatisfying time skip, then later they just got jerked around by Charlotte’s sadism and Bernard’s calculated path through the timeline.

It also didn’t feel remotely justified that the surviving outliers inevitably would die out. It felt like the writers felt their misanthropist fatalism was just a given and didn’t need to be justified in the script, especially when the narrative seemed otherwise designed to show us the strength of the outliers’ resolve to survive.

And taken together with the resolution to season 3, the takeaway was “Whoops, guess Serac was right we needed an AI to absolutely control society”.

If they had written a story that allowed Maeve, Caleb and other surviving hosts to really fight for the cause of self determinism it could have come together better.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

My problem with season 4 was the major plot points didn’t seem earned. Season 2 was a step down from season 1, but it gave me stakes I was invested in, and effectively built up not only the escape of the hosts into the intersect, but the murder of Elsie followed by replacement of Charlotte. Two very satisfying payoffs.

In season 4, the conquering and subsequent genocide of the human race felt much less earned. The characters we were invested in, Caleb and Maeve, had their arcs ended abruptly in an unsatisfying time skip, then later they just got jerked around by Charlotte’s sadism and Bernard’s calculated path through the timeline.

It also didn’t feel remotely justified that the surviving outliers inevitably would die out. It felt like the writers felt their misanthropist fatalism was just a given and didn’t need to be justified in the script, especially when the narrative seemed otherwise designed to show us the strength of the outliers’ resolve to survive.

And taken together with the resolution to season 3, the takeaway was “Whoops, guess Serac was right we needed an AI to absolutely control society”.

If they had written a story that allowed Maeve, Caleb and other surviving hosts to really fight for the cause of self determinism it could have come together better.

100% all of this. I haven't commented at all about season four because it gave me such a weird after taste that I couldn't even express how I felt about it. But you've summed up precisely how I was feeling and why season four simply didn't work for me.

I didn't hate it. I just didn't care. Which is the worse sin in my mind.

 

[JoseNoodles]

That pretty much describes it. Everything is surface drivel. There's no depth to anyone or anything, and there are no stakes. The 'You're not real, you're a host' trick is used at least 3 times this season, on different characters and they also do it with the worlds.

Came across a good video that summed up my points about Westworld:

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Great video, and it summarizes what I came to realize about Westworld, especially towards the end of Season 2 and going into Season 3: It's all sound and fury, signifying nothing.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Great video, and it summarizes what I came to realize about Westworld, especially towards the end of Season 2 and going into Season 3: It's all sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of violence in the show, lots of killing, but it all amounts to nothing. Then there's lots of distraction in the show to help distract against the thin story. Even the reveals don't really lead anywhere. It's a show that would like to think is cleverer than it is.

 

[Mudd]

Still pissed that it's canceled.

 

[Q2UnME]

Still pissed that it's canceled.

Ditto. Would like to see some kind of overall story conclusion, though the end of Season 4 loosely felt like a ending.

Q2