Henry Cavill is heading 40,000 years into the future...

[Starbrow]

Cavill wrote, “For 30 years I have dreamt of seeing a Warhammer universe in live action. Now, after 22 years of experience in this industry, I finally feel that I have the skill set and experience to guide a Warhammer Cinematic Universe into life. Partnering with Natalie Viscuso at Vertigo has been a blessing beyond words, without her we might not have found the perfect home at Amazon. And having a home like Amazon will give us the freedom to be true to the massive scope of Warhammer. To all of you Warhammer fans out there, I promise to respect this IP that we love. I promise to bring you something familiar. And I endeavour to bring you something fantastic that is, as of yet, unseen.
.
Our first steps are to find our Filmmaker/Creator/Writer. Watch this space, my friends.

For The Emperor!”
- this post is less than 24 hours old, but already have 2 037 169 likes.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm more into Warhammer Fantasy than 40K but I'll still check this out. A Rogue Trader show could be fun.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I hope he gets it in writing this time!

 

[theenglish]

One thing we can safely say is that it won't be as overwhelmingly white and male as the game universe is. And sadly we all know what sort of reaction that tends to provoke.

Okay, I know practically nothing about the universe but I've read that this is a game that appeals to Incels to the point where the discussion boards about the game double as Incel indoctrination sites. How much truth is there to that outside of what the "mainstream media" says?

 

[Reverend]

I have a weird relationship with 40K having never played the tabletop game proper (though I did have a copy of Space Crusade . . . which I also never really played) but I'm very familiar with it though the various video games from playing Space Hulk on the PS1, to Dawn of War 1&2 and their various expansions, to the shamefully overlooked 'Space Marine' third person hack & slash. During lockdown I also took the time to revisit some of this and for the first time actually started reading up on the lore, seeking out old (mostly 1st & 2nd edition codices) and living vicariously though several miniature painting and lore focused youtube channels.

With all that in mind; I'm curious to see where they go with it. As an IP, 40K is colossal is scale, scope depth and breadth. Aside from the likes of Star Wars it's probably one of the few IPs like this in which one could tell literally almost any kind of story you want, on any scale from the personal, to the grand epic.

Personally I think the wise move would be to focus on the personal scale first and keep the grand epic stuff as backdrop. So no Primarchs, no living demi-god monk space marine characters in general, no living saints, or demon princes as main characters. Indeed though it wouldn't be my first choice; the smart money is probably on an 'Eisenhorn' adaptation of some kind. The Inquisition does rather lend itself to giving a more relatable slice of the 40K universe that's somewhere in the middle between "literal living demi-gods" and "average hiveworld citizen".
I'm probably biased because it's my favourite faction, but I'd like to see something done with the Adept Sororitas.

I'm not a fan of 40K - too grim and unpleasantly nihilistic for my tastes,

A common complaint, and while you're not wrong, and one could certainly be forgiven for seeing it as such from the outside; it's not entirely accurate.
40K certainly became overly serious and angsty from about the early 2000's onwards, prior to that it had a decidedly tongue-in-cheek tone very much in line with 2000AD Judge Dredd. I get the sense that in the last few years GW have started to try and steer back towards that more self-aware sense of fun . . . mostly I suspect because of the alarming number of supposed fans seemingly unable to parse "totalitarian-xenophobic-religious zealots = bad guys" and all the awkward PR that entails. Think of it as being sort of like a reverse of the situation with 'Starship Troopers' the novel vs. Paul Verhoeven's take on the subject matter. In this case it's the original text that was intended as parody, and then others later on just took it at face value.

Maybe it's just my sense of humour, but I personally find the parody of a grim dark future to be an oddly entertaining backdrop for action spectacle. I mean what's not to love about the Orks? They're big green cockney accented monsters with the attitude of 80's football hooligans, that believe so hard that painting something red makes it go faster that it actually works!

 

[Set Harth]

Henry Cavill is heading 40,000 years into the future

I don't blame him.

 

[Starbrow]

I have a weird relationship with 40K having never played the tabletop game proper (though I did have a copy of Space Crusade . . . which I also never really played) but I'm very familiar with it though the various video games from playing Space Hulk on the PS1, to Dawn of War 1&2 and their various expansions, to the shamefully overlooked 'Space Marine' third person hack & slash. During lockdown I also took the time to revisit some of this and for the first time actually started reading up on the lore, seeking out old (mostly 1st & 2nd edition codices) and living vicariously though several miniature painting and lore focused youtube channels.

With all that in mind; I'm curious to see where they go with it. As an IP, 40K is colossal is scale, scope depth and breadth. Aside from the likes of Star Wars it's probably one of the few IPs like this in which one could tell literally almost any kind of story you want, on any scale from the personal, to the grand epic.

Personally I think the wise move would be to focus on the personal scale first and keep the grand epic stuff as backdrop. So no Primarchs, no living demi-god monk space marine characters in general, no living saints, or demon princes as main characters. Indeed though it wouldn't be my first choice; the smart money is probably on an 'Eisenhorn' adaptation of some kind. The Inquisition does rather lend itself to giving a more relatable slice of the 40K universe that's somewhere in the middle between "literal living demi-gods" and "average hiveworld citizen".
I'm probably biased because it's my favourite faction, but I'd like to see something done with the Adept Sororitas.


A common complaint, and while you're not wrong, and one could certainly be forgiven for seeing it as such from the outside; it's not entirely accurate.
40K certainly became overly serious and angsty from about the early 2000's onwards, prior to that it had a decidedly tongue-in-cheek tone very much in line with 2000AD Judge Dredd. I get the sense that in the last few years GW have started to try and steer back towards that more self-aware sense of fun . . . mostly I suspect because of the alarming number of supposed fans seemingly unable to parse "totalitarian-xenophobic-religious zealots = bad guys" and all the awkward PR that entails. Think of it as being sort of like a reverse of the situation with 'Starship Troopers' the novel vs. Paul Verhoeven's take on the subject matter. In this case it's the original text that was intended as parody, and then others later on just took it at face value.

Maybe it's just my sense of humour, but I personally find the parody of a grim dark future to be an oddly entertaining backdrop for action spectacle. I mean what's not to love about the Orks? They're big green cockney accented monsters with the attitude of 80's football hooligans, that believe so hard that painting something red makes it go faster that it actually works!

I am also looking much more now in to grim dark universes, they become more appealing than happy-go-lucky they do in MCU and other fantasy/sci-fi shows. Also i am more in to Tyranids, than Orks, and general corruption, and the hopelesness of the Human situation.

Also to me recent adaption of Halo and 40k means we might get a chance to get Battletech adapted too in the future.

 

[publiusr]

Cavil is the perfect fit with his intensity.
The Krypton craft from Man of Steel was Warhammer for all intents and purposes.

 

[FPAlpha]

Okay, I know practically nothing about the universe but I've read that this is a game that appeals to Incels to the point where the discussion boards about the game double as Incel indoctrination sites. How much truth is there to that outside of what the "mainstream media" says?

I don't like the term Incel, it is very derogatory. It is true however that such hobbies do attract people with let's say lower social skills and appeal but they are still a minority and every hobby group has these.

I am a member of a gaming club that focuses on tabletop games, amongst them all the games that Games Workshop produces including 40K) and we have a broad range of people - young singles up to people closing in on retirement age with families. It is a very social hobby and i love our Friday gaming nights with all the trash talk, dice rolling and hobby talk.

Cavill loves the lore of Warhammer 40.000 and is very knowledgeable about its background, which fills me with confidence that at least he'll try to do it right and stick as close to the background as possible. He also has the acting and general film experience and let's be honest he's close to 40 so only has a few years left to play action heroes and it would not be unwise to lay down the tracks for a career behind the camera.

As to 40K there is enough material for all kinds of far future storytelling:

- current timeline with stories about Space Marines ( the main attraction of 40K, huge and genetically modified supersoldiers in power armor) fighting against various enemies from mindless animalistic aliens called the Tyranids, other alien races of heretics

- stories centered on human soldiers with occasional Space Marine cameos ( personal favorite would be stories centered on Gaunt's Ghosts, an elite imperial regiment whose home planet ws destroyed by Chaos forces and they are the first and only regiment)

- stories centered around the various inquisitorial forces working deep in the shadows trying to root out traitors, heretics or alien infiltration, much more small scale and would be ideally suited for a TV show due the scope

The big one though is the Horus Heresy, a massive civil war within the Empire of Mankind 10.000 years before the main timeline starts. During that era called 30K the Empire was expanding rapidly throughout the galaxy by military means, aliens were simply wiped out and old human colonies were given the option to join the Imperium under their terms or be conquered. For this reason the Emperor of Mankind, humanity's strongest psyker and leader of the entire race, has created 20 Space Marine Legions ( 2 were completely wiped from records without explanation, something fandom has been discussing for decades as to why ) each lead by a demigod leader called a Primarch.

The "best" Primarch called Horus was given complete military command in absence of the Emperor who returned to Earth to further other special projects but Horus was wounded and corrupted by Chaos forces ( evil gods from a different dimension called the Warp) and led half of the Space Marines legion and half of all other miltary forces in a civil war against the Emperor.

This massive event, written down in a 50+ novel series, has defined what 30K and 40K was and had repercussions all through the lore. I'm not sure if Amazon would be willing to do this properly as it would mean a huge investment of money and effort to do it right.
Best bet is they'll launch a few shows to build up the brand and then switch to movies to expand before launching into the Heresy, that's at least how i would plan this.

I guess over the next few months we'll get information bits here and there as production ramps up, writers, directos and showrunners are found and there is something to show. Right now it's the concept and planning stage but i envy Cavill for being able to do this with Amazon money in the back.

If done right it could have potential to rival Superhero movies.

 

[Thestral]

A common complaint, and while you're not wrong, and one could certainly be forgiven for seeing it as such from the outside; it's not entirely accurate.
40K certainly became overly serious and angsty from about the early 2000's onwards, prior to that it had a decidedly tongue-in-cheek tone very much in line with 2000AD Judge Dredd. I get the sense that in the last few years GW have started to try and steer back towards that more self-aware sense of fun . . . mostly I suspect because of the alarming number of supposed fans seemingly unable to parse "totalitarian-xenophobic-religious zealots = bad guys" and all the awkward PR that entails. Think of it as being sort of like a reverse of the situation with 'Starship Troopers' the novel vs. Paul Verhoeven's take on the subject matter. In this case it's the original text that was intended as parody, and then others later on just took it at face value.

Maybe it's just my sense of humour, but I personally find the parody of a grim dark future to be an oddly entertaining backdrop for action spectacle. I mean what's not to love about the Orks? They're big green cockney accented monsters with the attitude of 80's football hooligans, that believe so hard that painting something red makes it go faster that it actually works!

Thanks for explaining this, that does sound rather fun when you put it that way!

 

[theenglish]

I don't like the term Incel, it is very derogatory.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. It is great that you have such a great gaming space. I don't game any longer, but my local store has a diverse client base as well. I see people of all ages gaming and the girls/women and non-binary players probably outnumber the men and boys whom I see playing at the tables.

The term Incel is not meant to be positive. It doesn't refer to nerdy types like most of us probably are on this board--or those who might lack social graces (or need to learn them to be successful professionally)-- it refers specifically to those who have developed misogynistic attitudes and blame women for not dating them. They then go on to intimidate women with their attitudes and display extremist right attitudes. It is one of the things that we look for when developing a digital profile of a possibly violent and dangerous (the others or themselves) person.

My concern with this is that if the game has a huge fan base of Incels, then that will attract them and, like Donald Trump, create an environment where people are looking for signals/messages-- complaining if the series does not conform to their expectations if the men are not properly masculine and the women are not sexualized enough. That was my concern.

My other concern, and the major reason I asked the question is does the universe of Warhammer naturally lend itself to or support Incel views-- or is it like RPGs in which the setting is open to interpretation?

It is true however that such hobbies do attract people with let's say lower social skills and appeal but they are still a minority and every hobby group has these.

I am a member of a gaming club that focuses on tabletop games, amongst them all the games that Games Workshop produces including 40K) and we have a broad range of people - young singles up to people closing in on retirement age with families. It is a very social hobby and i love our Friday gaming nights with all the trash talk, dice rolling and hobby talk.
Cavill loves the lore of Warhammer 40.000 and is very knowledgeable about its background, which fills me with confidence that at least he'll try to do it right and stick as close to the background as possible. He also has the acting and general film experience and let's be honest he's close to 40 so only has a few years left to play action heroes and it would not be unwise to lay down the tracks for a career behind the camera.

As to 40K there is enough material for all kinds of far future storytelling:

- current timeline with stories about Space Marines ( the main attraction of 40K, huge and genetically modified supersoldiers in power armor) fighting against various enemies from mindless animalistic aliens called the Tyranids, other alien races of heretics

- stories centered on human soldiers with occasional Space Marine cameos ( personal favorite would be stories centered on Gaunt's Ghosts, an elite imperial regiment whose home planet ws destroyed by Chaos forces and they are the first and only regiment)

- stories centered around the various inquisitorial forces working deep in the shadows trying to root out traitors, heretics or alien infiltration, much more small scale and would be ideally suited for a TV show due the scope

The big one though is the Horus Heresy, .... <REDACTED for SPACE>

I guess over the next few months we'll get information bits here and there as production ramps up, writers, directos and showrunners are found and there is something to show. Right now it's the concept and planning stage but i envy Cavill for being able to do this with Amazon money in the back.

If done right it could have potential to rival Superhero movies.

Thanks for all that information. It gives me a much better idea what to expect.

 

[FPAlpha]

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. It is great that you have such a great gaming space. I don't game any longer, but my local store has a diverse client base as well. I see people of all ages gaming and the girls/women and non-binary players probably outnumber the men and boys whom I see playing at the tables.

The term Incel is not meant to be positive. It doesn't refer to nerdy types like most of us probably are on this board--or those who might lack social graces (or need to learn them to be successful professionally)-- it refers specifically to those who have developed misogynistic attitudes and blame women for not dating them. They then go on to intimidate women with their attitudes and display extremist right attitudes. It is one of the things that we look for when developing a digital profile of a possibly violent and dangerous (the others or themselves) person.

My concern with this is that if the game has a huge fan base of Incels, then that will attract them and, like Donald Trump, create an environment where people are looking for signals/messages-- complaining if the series does not conform to their expectations if the men are not properly masculine and the women are not sexualized enough. That was my concern.

My other concern, and the major reason I asked the question is does the universe of Warhammer naturally lend itself to or support Incel views-- or is it like RPGs in which the setting is open to interpretation?



Thanks for all that information. It gives me a much better idea what to expect.

There is of course a number of people in the hobby you describe, it is a nerdy hobby with Space Orks and Elves, magic ( psychic powers), demons and supersoldiers - basically Superhero movies amped up to eleven. However i don't believe these people comprise a huge part of that, not more than in any other area of fandom, Star Trek amongst them. There are some worthy of cringe but the majority are just regular people being passionate about that specific thing ( some a bit too passionate but that's another discussion).

I don't believe the universe itself supports their views - quite the opposite. Men and women are equal, at least on the battlefield. In the imperial army men and women serve and die together. There's a whole separte armed force belonging to the main religion organization that by law can only have women under arms, so it's basically Nuns with Guns ( in heavy powerarmor) - i own that army myself because it is visually stunning and who can resist the concept of Nuns with Guns

There's your typical macho faction, i.e. the mentioned Space Marines who are exclusively male ( has lore reasons as the genetic process to turn them into these supersoldiers only works on male kids/teenagers) and then there's a good mix of men and women throughout all the background and playable factions, especially the Sisters of Battle ( the Nuns with Guns) proved to be a hugely popular army that brought in many women to play but are played by many men too.

Lorewise that universe is brutal and uncaring - mankind is fighting wars on a thousand fronts, constantly on the brink of extinction by other very powerful forces so i don't see misogyny being supported by its background - it's down to the player and his/her character what they make of it. If they're misogynistic then they'll find a way to express this, no matter which hobby they have.

That is a fan made action figure of Cavill as a Custodes ( the personal bodyguard army of the Emperor, the absolute Elite of mankind). Cavill plays ( or at least collects and paints) this army and has expressed his desire to play their badass Captain-General during the events of the Horus Heresy. Let's see which role he actually takes but i can't wait to see him tear through demons and aliens alike

 

[Reverend]

Thanks for explaining this, that does sound rather fun when you put it that way!

And in the spirit of the season . . .

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There's your typical macho faction, i.e. the mentioned Space Marines who are exclusively male ( has lore reasons as the genetic process to turn them into these supersoldiers only works on male kids/teenagers)

The only thing funnier than how uptight certain fans get about that whole thing, is that there's only one reason that lore came about in the first place. It's simply because the female space marine miniature they produced in the early 'Rogue Trader' days didn't sell all that well. That's it. It was fairly arbitrary and even the people that wrote it have said as much. Space Marines just became an all-male faction by default because of the buying preferences of a bunch of nerdy teens in the late 80's; surprise surprise they didn't like girls in their space war game.

There's really no reason why they can't reverse that decision given how times have changed. Indeed, the advent of Primaris marines gives them a very easy out; they can just say it's turns out the new and improved recipe works on anyone, regardless of chromosomes.
Hell, it'd be worth it just for the absolute flid the misogynists will throw.

 

[fireproof78]

My other concern, and the major reason I asked the question is does the universe of Warhammer naturally lend itself to or support Incel views-- or is it like RPGs in which the setting is open to interpretation?

If they're misogynistic then they'll find a way to express this, no matter which hobby they have.

This is the answer. 40k isn't more, or less, likely to attract it than other places. In RPG games you will always have the struggles of people reading in to meaning more than is actually there.

The fact is that 40k is such a huge universe that it will attract fans of all stripes, so inevitably someone will be annoyed, and someone will be disappointed.

And it's funny to discuss this because of one of my favorite gammer YT channels is Girls Play and how they react and want all in on the universe, after first not knowing anything about it, is probably how it's going to go with this series:

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[FPAlpha]

And in the spirit of the season . . .

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The only thing funnier than how uptight certain fans get about that whole thing, is that there's only one reason that lore came about in the first place. It's simply because the female space marine miniature they produced in the early 'Rogue Trader' days didn't sell all that well. That's it. It was fairly arbitrary and even the people that wrote it have said as much. Space Marines just became an all-male faction by default because of the buying preferences of a bunch of nerdy teens in the late 80's; surprise surprise they didn't like girls in their space war game.

There's really no reason why they can't reverse that decision given how times have changed. Indeed, the advent of Primaris marines gives them a very easy out; they can just say it's turns out the new and improved recipe works on anyone, regardless of chromosomes.
Hell, it'd be worth it just for the absolute flid the misogynists will throw.

Yeah, gatekeeping can be very strong. If i'm in a particular good mood or feel argumentative i go down the rabbit hole that is gaming groups on Facebook and start arguing. When i get bored i simply throw one last grenade, chuckle and do something else