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DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

Of course, Zaslav only cares about money. We knew that. But that's also the job, considering WB has been financially struggling for years. And now, it is the job of Gunn & Safran to make the new DC film universe (including TV, animation and video games, apparently) a success, hopefully creatively as well as financially.
 
Of the two "superhero conflict" movies released in 2016, Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice was the one with the believable reason for heroes to clash, with its plot coherently justified by the events of Man of Steel, introduced the best Batman/Bruce Wayne ever put on film (or second best after Bale, depending on your mileage), and a filmed Luthor who lived up to the megalomaniacal (and atheistic) behavior displayed in his greatest comic-book stories, all perfectly introducing / weaving in Wonder Woman. Audiences wanted more of this then-building DCEU.
I will admit that there is a definite continuity between the two flms in this aspect. And yeah, I actually liked Batfleck. And Snyder's Luthor feels so much more relevent, post T@rump presidency. However, i think Eisenbergmight been one of the veryfew miscasting done in the films.
Gunn is in charge of DCU's creative development, he was the one who had the now-infamous conversation with Cavill (who had agreed to return as Superman up to that point), and thanks to his decision to end the MoS continuity and start with some younger-years Superman, Cavill was dismissed. The responsibility rests with Gunn.
Gunn has to do his job under certain parameters, set by Zaslav. It's far more specific than just using DC characters, of even Superman. It's a younger Superman. And for the next 10 years. Gunn might have just slightly more power than Geoff Johns. Zaslav is more like Rick Berman, but i think Gunn is more talented than Brannon Braga, and will do a better job with what he has been dealt with.
Irrelevant concern in this era of de-aging actors. However, I'd think if actors' ages were a concern at all, the discussion would land on Holland still portraying teenaged Parker, when Holland does not look like anyone in the neighborhood of being teenaged, which was glaring in his most recent appearance as the character.
Irrelevent?? Uh, no. They can de-aging for one or two flashback scenes. Maybe. If relevent (like the upcoming Indiana Jones film). But ain't no way penny pinching will spend money on a whole movie with de-aging.
The decision was still dick-headed. In the world of film, if there's one actor audiences wanted to see return to a role, it was not Downey jr. as Stark. Not Evans as Captain America, but Cavill as Superman. The run-up to and announcement that he was not only appearing in Black Adam, but returning to the DCEU was one of the biggest, positive news events for movies this year (if not for the past few years), with fan reactions ever-proving that they loved his interpretation in the stories written for him. Now, that's been ripped to shreds thanks to "DC's Kevin Feige" deciding to bury the technically still-active MoS continuity. There's no surprise that blame is aimed at Gunn.
Downey and Evans had a solid 10 years in their roles, and were able to leave them in a narratively strong way. We have plenty of tech replacements for Stark, and we agree that Sam Wilson has been solidly taken over the role of Captain America, which we both look forward to in CA4.
I don't get this at all.

Regarding Superman as Wolverine --- what bothered somepoeple about Man of Steel was all the destruction going on in the fighting...where Superman is fighting like WOlverine, who only focuses on the fight , and doesn't care about the destruction and collateral damage invovled.

it's an exaggerated view, but i get it. The plotting was terrible. The original Superman 2 at least had Superman be an established hero, who had years of training in his powers, so he could be more disciplined in his fighting, as well as "realistic" in his being able to beat his foes.

It's his first major super hero battle...which. yeah, kinda explains some of the emotional fallout in B v. S .... but it still all feels pretty sloppy. Snyder also failed to build in us a sense of why Clark would be so distraught at killing a guy who just killed dozens, if not hundreds or even thousands of humans. It would be THOSE things that bother some of us about Snyderman... not Henry Cavill the actor.
 
In one year, WB killed our Latina Supergirl and Cavilman. Seeing those two on screen fighting Brainiac would have been a dream come true for me.

I now leave you with Cavilman's greatest hits.

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"Don't for get to smile".
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"Super Space Man. Human Race Man. Gonna thank you because you care".
 
I would disagree. If you ask the general public (i.e. no one on this board) -- if you say Superfriends, or ask which heroes hang out with Batman & Superman, you will get some responses.

I don't disagree with that. I didn't mean to imply an 'only' when I brought up B & S as franchises. My point isn't that DC has no other franchises than those two but that it's DC's characters who are the franchises, not DC itself. People know the biggest characters but have no conception of DC as an entity. Marvel can release something like Werewolf-by-Night, which as far as I can tell has absolutely no connection to previous MCU -- not a single character or concept -- and which is a whole 'nother genre to boot; and there's still an excited pre-existing audience just *because* it's from Marvel Studios. Whereas if Warner Bros. released a Claw the Unconquered special or whatever, there wouldn't be any meaningful number of people excited purely on the basis of "Ooh, it's by DC!" It's success would be dependent on more traditional avenues of appeal like star power and marketing, as if it were a brand new character.

That's the difference.
 
It's not. I don't like the decision but it's not a dick-headed move. It's simply business and looking down the road for someone who can play the part for a decade+.

If Gunn used the "reasoning" that getting rid of Cavill was about wanting someone younger who could portray the character a decade down the line, then this assumes that one, the films were never going to have characters gradually age. Two, Gunn must have been unaware that film series had actors stay for long periods of time (Moore as Bond, Downey jr as Iron Man, et al.), and in either theory, it renders his "reasoning" as an ultimately dick-headed move. There was no logical excuse for cutting Cavill, other than his need to create a Gunn universe, and he could not do that with actors who defined their roles / films.

I think the actor is charismatic and it would be nice to see him get a chance to properly play Superman.....not a flying Wolverine.

No one knows what "flying Wolverine" means in relation to Cavill's Superman.

No. Just…no.

Agreed.

I will admit that there is a definite continuity between the two flms in this aspect. And yeah, I actually liked Batfleck. And Snyder's Luthor feels so much more relevent, post T@rump presidency. However, i think Eisenbergmight been one of the veryfew miscasting done in the films.

Considering we are still in the general era of arrogant, soulless tech CEOs--many having a cultural association with very late Generation X-forward, Luthor--also an arrogant, soulless tech CEO, needed to be cast in that mold, not as some older, near-retirement age (and completely non-threatening) blowhard as seen in other Superman adaptations. Eisenberg zeroed in on what this century's type of Luthor should be, and succeeded in the role.

Gunn has to do his job under certain parameters, set by Zaslav. It's far more specific than just using DC characters, of even Superman. It's a younger Superman. And for the next 10 years. Gunn might have just slightly more power than Geoff Johns. Zaslav is more like Rick Berman, but i think Gunn is more talented than Brannon Braga, and will do a better job with what he has been dealt with.

Remember, Cavill returning was already in the works before Gunn was inked in for his new job--it was going on for quite some time, since there's interview evidence from Johnson and his agents hinting at the Cavill matter, and even at that point, the meetings with Cavill were already in progress, therefore, if Zaslav was against Cavill's reprising the role, it is highly doubtful Cavill would have appeared in Black Adam at all, let alone follow that with official announcements of his return.

It is Gunn (and his partner who desired a universe of their own, which led to the Cavill meetings and his dismissal from the role of Superman, so, as much as others suffer from "Zaslav Derangement Syndrome", where he's the cause of everything from the Hindenburg's destruction, global warming and Cavill being booted from the Superman role, this all falls on Gunn.

Irrelevent?? Uh, no. They can de-aging for one or two flashback scenes. Maybe. If relevent (like the upcoming Indiana Jones film). But ain't no way penny pinching will spend money on a whole movie with de-aging.

I'm pointing out that de-aging is an option, but as mentioned earlier in this post, this assumes Gunn did not want films where characters gradually age, like--you know--real life.


Regarding Superman as Wolverine --- what bothered somepoeple about Man of Steel was all the destruction going on in the fighting...where Superman is fighting like WOlverine, who only focuses on the fight , and doesn't care about the destruction and collateral damage invovled.

As noted time after time, he was fighting a warrior with greater experience with his power than Superman had at that point. This warrior was set to destroy the population of earth, so Superman had to do whatever he could to stop a being who was never going to stand down and surrender. Some must have been in the lobby buying candy in order to have missed the situation as presented. He was doing his job, not acting as camp counselor.
 
WB killed our Latina Supergirl
Yeah, that's another casualty of all this I really regret. I was very excited about our new big-screen Supergirl (and still eagerly anticipate The Flash mostly for her), but it seems almost certain that Calle is now a one-and-done.
 
I'm sorry to go back but I didn't get a chance to comment on this before. I really don't think the end of the current DCEU is going to have any effect on the upcoming movies. Like other people have said, the interconnected universe is fun, but for the majority of people, I really don't think it's going effect whether they see it or not. I think for most people, myself included, it's secondary to just seeing a movie I enjoy. I do see every Marvel movie, but not because they're all connected, but just because I enjoy the movies. If there was one that really just didn't interest me, then I would happily skip it.
While I am disappointed that Gunn appears to be getting rid of the current actors, I can completely understand why he would be doing it. They brought him in the do his own thing, and so I can see him wanting to bring in new actors that fit what he is planning better than who we had before.
 
This is like the movie version of the New 52. We all know how that worked out. :)

Except the New 52 was a pointless reboot of an already great universe done by idiots that has ruined DC Comics to this day, while this is basically a necessary reboot of a failed universe (and yes it did fail as an overall thing, critically and commercially) done by someone with a great track record.
 
It only failed since they kept messing with it. Too many cooks in that situation.
They only kept messing with it because it was failing. I think they were finally starting to turn things around the last few years, but I can completely understand wanting to just start over from scratch at this point.
 
I still don't understand how it was failing. Their movies were way more entertaining than Marvel's. Hell, I saw MoS 4 times at the cinema. And this was before cinema memberships meaning I spent a lot of money on it.
 
If Gunn used the "reasoning" that getting rid of Cavill was about wanting someone younger who could portray the character a decade down the line, then this assumes that one, the films were never going to have characters gradually age. Two, Gunn must have been unaware that film series had actors stay for long periods of time (Moore as Bond, Downey jr as Iron Man, et al.), and in either theory, it renders his "reasoning" as an ultimately dick-headed move. There was no logical excuse for cutting Cavill, other than his need to create a Gunn universe, and he could not do that with actors who defined their roles / films.

I mean if you want to call the guy a dick-head then by all means that's all you and go for it. There are business reasons why doing this makes sense. Whether you want to entertain those reasons or not again your choice but just kinda feels like you wanna just sit somewhere and call that guy names for his decision.

Btw...Moore as Bond in the latter years was awful. Should have retired a lot sooner. I get your overall point but that one....ouch. LOL!!! And yes....I agree that Cavill could have easily played the character for another decade without showing much signs of aging like Roger Moore. But again, it's about wiping out a universe that wasn't working. That unfortunately meant Cavill's departure. I don't agree or disagree with the decision. I'm just saying I understand it.

No one knows what "flying Wolverine" means in relation to Cavill's Superman.

Others did. :shrug:
 
I still don't understand how it was failing. Their movies were way more entertaining than Marvel's. Hell, I saw MoS 4 times at the cinema. And this was before cinema memberships meaning I spent a lot of money on it.
They failed because they weren't making the kind of money WB wanted them to make, and that's really the number one concern when it comes to the studios' decision making.
 
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