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DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

Zaslav said "i want to make money"

And then proceeded to guarantee that his company will likely lose money from the overall box office on the majority of its upcoming DC-related film slate by bringing in a new creative regime that has decided to " throw the baby out with the bathwater" immediately and therefore sabotage Zaslov's quest to make profit instead of waiting a year to announce a retooling when the decision to do so wouldn't impact yet-to-be-released products.
 
And then proceeded to guarantee that his company will likely lose money from the overall box office on the majority of its upcoming DC-related film slate by bringing in a new creative regime that has decided to " throw the baby out with the bathwater" immediately and therefore sabotage Zaslov's quest to make profit instead of waiting a year to announce a retooling when the decision to do so wouldn't impact yet-to-be-released products.
Indeed. And not only that, but also created ill will with other current creative (i.e. Batgirl makers), so that loses even more momentum for the DCOU.
Maybe the tax bill for 2022 will look good, but profits for 2023 and thenmext 5 years at least will be bad enough to oust Zaslav
 
Johnson and his agents aren't in charge, though. Their mistake for thinking they're bigger than the company they were hired to work for.

This.

Johnson absolutely insisted and Cavill had one more film appearance as Supes on his contract, so there it is.

Things might have been different if Black Adam had notched a billion dollars, but it won't see profit no matter how much fuzzy math Dwayne applies to it.
 
Sorry, but the Batman vs. Superman x 3 plotline wasn't that strong.

Of the two "superhero conflict" movies released in 2016, Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice was the one with the believable reason for heroes to clash, with its plot coherently justified by the events of Man of Steel, introduced the best Batman/Bruce Wayne ever put on film (or second best after Bale, depending on your mileage), and a filmed Luthor who lived up to the megalomaniacal (and atheistic) behavior displayed in his greatest comic-book stories, all perfectly introducing / weaving in Wonder Woman. Audiences wanted more of this then-building DCEU.


Except it isn't really him making the call. James is a hired Gunn (pun firmly intended). What he is doing is simply carrying out the wishes of Zaslav. Zaslav is the one who has been crying out that Superman should be a billiion dollar movie (which i actually agree with,though certainly not how Zaslav is doing it), and Zaslav is the one demanding a 10 year plan.

Gunn is in charge of DCU's creative development, he was the one who had the now-infamous conversation with Cavill (who had agreed to return as Superman up to that point), and thanks to his decision to end the MoS continuity and start with some younger-years Superman, Cavill was dismissed. The responsibility rests with Gunn.

Doing the math, that will mean Cavill will be in the role for 20 years at the end of it...while he might still look good at that age, he won't be able to carry Superman further than that.

Irrelevant concern in this era of de-aging actors. However, I'd think if actors' ages were a concern at all, the discussion would land on Holland still portraying teenaged Parker, when Holland does not look like anyone in the neighborhood of being teenaged, which was glaring in his most recent appearance as the character.

By the way, Gunn seems to be trying to be as diplomatic and respectful as possible, and i don't see any evidence countering that.

The decision was still dick-headed. In the world of film, if there's one actor audiences wanted to see return to a role, it was not Downey jr. as Stark. Not Evans as Captain America, but Cavill as Superman. The run-up to and announcement that he was not only appearing in Black Adam, but returning to the DCEU was one of the biggest, positive news events for movies this year (if not for the past few years), with fan reactions ever-proving that they loved his interpretation in the stories written for him. Now, that's been ripped to shreds thanks to "DC's Kevin Feige" deciding to bury the technically still-active MoS continuity. There's no surprise that blame is aimed at Gunn.
 
The decision was still dick-headed.

It's not. I don't like the decision but it's not a dick-headed move. It's simply business and looking down the road for someone who can play the part for a decade+.

There's also a sense of starting fresh with new faces. Again, like it or not, DCU has been a mess since MoS. Unfortunately that means the actors pay the price for someone else's mismanagement of the franchise.


...with fan reactions ever-proving that they loved his interpretation in the stories written for him.

Maybe. I am not a fan of his interpretation of Superman. Not his fault though. I am more of a Henry Cavill fan. So yes....I wanted to see him back in the cape because I think the actor is charismatic and it would be nice to see him get a chance to properly play Superman.....not a flying Wolverine.

But....and I'll say again....fans said the same thing about Routh wanting him to return, criticized Cavill since he was the new guy(again...not exactly his fault but more of the storyline and direction), and eventually learned to like him. We'll eventually learn to like the next guy donning the cape.
 
Fans and audiences demanded to see Spider-Man in the MCU. Sony and Marvel made it happen in under 2 years for Civil War and Homecoming.

Fans and audiences demanded a return of the previous Spider-Man actors for a live action Spider-Verse movie. After 2018’s Into the Spider-Verse and 2019’s Far From Home. Sony made it happen in 2021.

Fans and audiences demanded a return of Hugh Jackman as Wolverine in the MCU. Ryan Reynolds’s and Disney are making this happen.


Fans and audiences demanded Henry Cavil reprise his role as Superman for future DC projects. His last time wearing the cape being in 2017.

WB slow walked any progress on this happening. Releasing films nobody asked for (Harley Quinn and the Birds of Prey), spending hundreds of millions to salavage doomed productions (Batgirl and Flashpoint) and a series of movies that have lost money at the BO (Birds of Prey, WW84, Suicide Squad 2, Black Adam). They confirm Cavil is back and then publicly dismiss him 4 weeks later. Promising a reboot of the character whose film’s earliest release date will be in 2025. As production for the current continuity films (Aquaman 2, Blue Beetle, Flashpoint and Shazam 2) have yet to complete production and release for 2023 and 2024.


Meanwhile, Gunn’s idea of a Superman vs Suicide Squad movie has been poached by Marvel. The premise of which is being used for their Thunderbolts movie. Where Hyperion (one of Marvel’s many Superman clones) will be the big bad.


We all are wishing the new Superman team the best, but WB has no one but themselves to blame for the current state of things. And worse case scenario of the new Superman not being a huge hit like they want. No Superman movie has yet to hit a billion dollars. WB wants that, no question.
 
What I mean to say is that Henry Cavill's Superman wasn't 'Superman' until the last part of Justice League; after he's resurrected. What we saw as 'Superman' for all of MoS was an angry, confused, meta-human. But not Superman.
He wasn't either angry or confused for all of MoS.
 
Birds of Prey is the only DC movie from the last ten years that I really loved and would be excited to see more of.
Same here, although I also really enjoyed Shazam. I enjoyed both of them are far and above all of the other DC films.
 
What we saw as 'Superman' for all of MoS was an angry, confused, meta-human.

No, he was a confused Kryptonian-American. Metahumans are humans with superpowers, like the Flash or Black Canary.

I actually thought MoS got Clark's personality mostly right, aside from his indecisiveness and needing a succession of male authority figures to tell him what to do, including some random priest. What I liked about Clark in MoS is that his innate Superman-ness shone through despite everything the script did to undermine it.

It was in BvS that Superman was characterized terribly. He was barely a character there, more just a MacGuffin that other characters reacted to. I thought Cavill in MoS was the best Superman since Reeve, but in BvS I thought he was awful, because the script gave him nothing to work with.
 
Here's Zaslav's reasoning for ending the DCEU, namely all DCEU movies released since 2019 and their respective worldwide box office:

- Shazam!: $363.5 million
- Birds of Prey: $201 million
- Wonder Woman 1984: $166.3 million
- The Suicide Squad: $167 million
- Black Adam: $390 million

Yeah, at least two of those were affected by the pandemic and same-day-HBOMax releases, but that just turns to Black Adam as the test balloon, starring the biggest action star in the world, co-starring a former James Bond, a production of $150 million+, and promising the return of Henry Cavill as Superman, and it still underperformed. As much as one might be personally attached to this universe, but you can't really blame the guy for wanting to start over.
 
No, he was a confused Kryptonian. Metahumans are humans with superpowers, like the Flash or Black Canary.

Ok. I'll buy that. Still wasn't Superman to me but I understand what you're saying in the rest of your explanation.

It was in BvS that Superman was characterized terribly.

Yep, that's my 'flying Wolverine' criticism. Not that I'm necessarily comparing him exactly to Wolverine but the idea of the angry raging superhuman(ok....not 'metahuman' ;) ). It just wasn't Superman. There were hints here and there for sure. And again I'll say that's not on him but the people writing and directing.
 
As much as one might be personally attached to this universe, but you can't really blame the guy for wanting to start over.

If you think money is the only thing that matters, sure. But that mentality is exactly my problem with people like Zaslav. They're incapable of making a decision that isn't about profit, even if it means killing a promising movie just to get a sleazy tax write-off, or firing hundreds of employees. Creativity and fairness suffer when the decision-makers only see numbers. So don't expect me to be sympathetic to an argument that reduces everything to dollar signs.
 
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