What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[fireproof78]

In any case, it certainly doesn't make me dismissable as not a True Trek Fan

As the resident non Trek Fan trust me you haven't reached that level yet.

But, to Vger23's point this is a passionate lot, and we see a lot of protectionist attitudes around Trek, largely owning the many dust ups that have happened (Discovery recently, ENT in the history-I was not here). Regardless, this site embodies fan passion, emotional reactions and well meaning, if adamant

Well, I've frequented other "top Trek discussion boards" and my experience over these last 25 years has been a lot of reasonable and enjoyable discussions - aside from the rare Scorned-type dude - with a lot of hardcore fans (I even made real life friends out of a few) I sometimes/often disagreed with. I guess I found pretty decent spots to discuss Trek and my relationship with it in the last few decades, as I've rarely seen people getting all worked up when broaching such subjects, even if they disagreed completely (see Captain Kris Kringle Pike's comments above for what I generally expected).

I have been on one board that fit that descriptor, and it was an RPG board. Other than that, wherever I discuss Trek it brings up some, intensity, in the discussion, to be charitable. And I'm guilty of that because there is an aspect to my approach that is extremely ecumenical, welcoming as much of Trek out there as possible, and finding as many similarities in newer Trek that were present in older Trek. It's far from easy, but it's also the place where I have had the best conversations and challenging my preconceptions of how I approach Trek.

Few people will agree with me but I at least have fun conversations.

I agree that not enjoying some shows or episodes doesn't diminish that aspect in any way, but I will also admit that I might not need to share that attachment outwards as much as I needed to when I first looked for others like me

This I get. I use to do conventions, costuming, fan film and the like. I don't do that as much, owing in part to real life pressures and responsibilities, and the fact that generally I approach the franchise with a far more loving-kindness approach that it all has something to offer, even if I completely disagree with it. But, that's my thing; it isn't everyone's thing.

But I learn a lot more when I share.

 

[Tupperfan]

Totally fair CKKP and I'll drink to that.

Here's to passionate Trek fans and the heated discussions we love/hate to have!

 

[Sehlat Vie]

Controversial opinions?
Here goes:

* Kirk was a terrible commander at times, and Spock was the one who saved his bacon a lot more than seems to be commonly remembered, particularly in "Requiem For Methuselah," "The Wrath of Khan" and quite a few others.

* DSC has some terrific characters, and I enjoy pieces of it more than the whole, but its serialized format generally works against it far more than it helps.

* DSC Season 2 and PIC Season 1 are essentially the same story; deadly AI armageddons.

* I cannot stomach Lower Decks. Watched the first 5 and one or two afterward, and I simply can't stand it.

* I wish they would remake TAS with Prodigy-style animation and polish, while retaining the original actor voice tracks.

I've got a lot more, but I'm brand new here, and I don't want to make enemies.

 

[plynch]

I love all three seasons of TOS. Fondly love them, they’re a big part of shaping me.

We’re rewatching VOY, which used to be my second fave series. (PRO now is, then tie w/ VOY and SNW for #3.) It’s ok. Honestly I could stop. It’s of a time, pre-Sopranos, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, the Crown. Even DS9 with all its great ancillary characters. The dialogue is just often comic bookish and predictable. It’s probably the best Trek in an objective, quality sense. But still, it’s not “great” compared to other tv I’ve seen, not to mention film and plays and lit.

I think relative to what was on in 1967, say, TOS was relatively very good. The Kovacs/Playhouse 90 first Golden Age-was done and the vast wasteland era had descended. Relative to its contemporaries, did TOS stand tallest?

 

[fireproof78]

I've got a lot more, but I'm brand new here, and I don't want to make enemies.

Hmmmm...

* I cannot stomach Lower Decks. Watched the first 5 and one or two afterward, and I simply can't stand it.

...it might be too late

 

[Vger23]

Actually, I might have not expressed myself well on this as I fully agree with you here: I still enjoy the Trek fandom. I love my star charts, my ship models and the Sisko and Spock figures I have in my home office. I introduced my girlfriend to the universe and she enjoyed it greatly (although, aside from SNW, she has stopped watching the new offerings extremely quickly). We went to a wonderful Bruce Horak multidisciplinary performance after discovering him on SNW. A few years ago, travelling to Trek shooting locations in California and Nevada has made our trip in the US Southwest much more fun.

So, I still have a strong attachment to Trek (As a French-Canadian, it was my original gateway to learning and speaking English) and I enjoy its lore immensely. I agree that not enjoying some shows or episodes doesn't diminish that aspect in any way, but I will also admit that I might not need to share that attachment outwards as much as I needed to when I first looked for others like me (and made real-life friends) in places such as the late 90s Trekweb, hence why I feel like I'm somewhat moving away from the fandom (to a degree). My current experience here tends to confirm that feeling, but I'll give it a bit more time (and I'll try other threads).





I fully agree with both these assessments and it's the way I try to approach Trek.



That's a totally fair question, but as stated before, I'm not quite ready to call it quits (and it also doesn't mean I will), so that's actually quite consistent with where I'm currently standing. But yeah, you might be right: Given the warm welcome, maybe this place won't help me re-kindle the Trek fire either.



Well, I've frequented other "top Trek discussion boards" and my experience over these last 25 years has been a lot of reasonable and enjoyable discussions - aside from the rare Scorned-type dude - with a lot of hardcore fans (I even made real life friends out of a few) I sometimes/often disagreed with. I guess I found pretty decent spots to discuss Trek and my relationship with it in the last few decades, as I've rarely seen people getting all worked up when broaching such subjects, even if they disagreed completely (see Captain Kris Kringle Pike's comments above for what I generally expected).

So yeah, consider me somewhat surprised by the reaction, even among hardcore fans, and especially in a thread titled "What are your controversial Star Trek opinions"! After so many years discussing with strangers on the internet, I guess I should have known better but don't worry, my expectations have been adjusted.

In any case, it certainly doesn't make me dismissable as not a True Trek Fan, nor does it make my opinion particularly offensive, even if you don't agree with it. But hey, feel free to give it very little importance: It's definitely not world-changing and shouldn't affect your appreciation of Trek.

I think that all makes sense. Honestly, I had Trek burn-out with VOY and ENT back in the early 2000’s, and it took me about 5-6 years to get the passion back, so I totally get it. It’s been going 55 years…it’s a lot!

 

[Sehlat Vie]

Hmmmm...


...it might be too late

Yeah, I know...lots of folks love it, and I wish them many happy years of it, but it's just not for me at all.

 

[1001001]

Yeah, I know...lots of folks love it, and I wish them many happy years of it, but it's just not for me at all.

He is not Of the Body…

 

[Vger23]

Controversial opinions?
Here goes:

* Kirk was a terrible commander at times, and Spock was the one who saved his bacon a lot more than seems to be commonly remembered, particularly in "Requiem For Methuselah," "The Wrath of Khan" and quite a few others.

* DSC has some terrific characters, and I enjoy pieces of it more than the whole, but its serialized format generally works against it far more than it helps.

* DSC Season 2 and PIC Season 1 are essentially the same story; deadly AI armageddons.

* I cannot stomach Lower Decks. Watched the first 5 and one or two afterward, and I simply can't stand it.

* I wish they would remake TAS with Prodigy-style animation and polish, while retaining the original actor voice tracks.

I've got a lot more, but I'm brand new here, and I don't want to make enemies.

Good list. Here are my thoughts:

1. I don’t think Kirk is a terrible commander. I think it’s in how his character is written that he is a flawed, very human commander ( meaning, he has weaknesses and makes mistakes) which make him a far more interesting and relatable Captain than Picard was portrayed as.

2. I agree that DSC has some amazing characters (Saru, Culber, Stamets, Lorca, Tilly) and also some weaker ones (Adira, Book, Gray). I don’t think serialized format hurts DSC…but I think the writing staff’s inability to properly pace and close-out a serialized season certainly has at times.

3. LD is easily…by a mile…my least favorite series in the franchise. That said, I still like it to some degree. The characters and pace mostly just give me a pounding headache, but then Easter eggs and call backs are really quite cool. For the most part, I really could do without it though.

4. 100% agree on a re-do of TAS with modern animation.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, I know...lots of folks love it, and I wish them many happy years of it, but it's just not for me at all.

Which is just fine. Tolkien once commented that he had not always enjoyed CS Lewis' works, and vice versa. But, he valued his company.

Not all Trek is going to appeal.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yeah, I know...lots of folks love it, and I wish them many happy years of it, but it's just not for me at all.

No, that's not how it's done. You must declare them apostate, heretics and an affront to Gene's Vision.

 

[Vger23]

No, that's not how it's done. You must declare them apostate, heretics and an affront to Gene's Vision.

NOW we’re talking!

 

[Lord Garth]

So yeah, consider me somewhat surprised by the reaction, even among hardcore fans, and especially in a thread titled "What are your controversial Star Trek opinions"! After so many years discussing with strangers on the internet, I guess I should have known better but don't worry, my expectations have been adjusted.

I fully believe you're a True Fan. Here and there, there have been some cases where I've wondered, "Is this person actually a fan?" But not in this case. And I also posted on TrekWeb, very occasionally in the late-'90s. The last time I posted (or even visited) there, Bill Clinton was President. I remember this one poster there, O'Dues, but not too much else.

But, when you post in the Controversial Opinions Thread, there's going to be some point-counterpoint in here. I said I thought PIC Season 1 was the best season of Star Trek, @Richard S. Ta asked me why, adding that it was a bold statement to make, so I had to show my hand. Goes with the territory.

Link below to said post:
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions? | Page 515 | The Trek BBS

 

[ananta]

And for me the true nadir of TOS is "And the Children Shall Lead." And even it has creepy visual f/x and the Gorgan chant is catchy. Terrible Trek leaves an impression and can generate happy memories.

Agreed, it’s possibly the worst of TOS’s entire run. I have a theory that Picard hated children and didn’t want any on his ship because he’d happened to see “And the Children Shall Lead”. Those kids were just unbearable.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

1. I'd much prefer to rewatch Spock's Brain than City on the Edge of Forever.

2. Undicovered Country is better than Wrath of Khan.

3. I'd much prefer to watch Move Along Home than The Visitor.

4. Enterprise S1&2 are better than 3&4.

5. Beyond is the best of the Kelvin films.

6. Disco S1 is the best, and Disco has gotten progressively less interesting each series.

7. Picard S1 is the best of the new trek series so far.

 

[Tupperfan]

But, when you post in the Controversial Opinions Thread, there's going to be some point-counterpoint in here. I said I thought PIC Season 1 was the best season of Star Trek, @Richard S. Ta asked me why, adding that it was a bold statement to make, so I had to show my hand. Goes with the territory.

Again, that's totally fair and I've always understood that. I have no issues with arguing a point, I was mostly surprised by the "why even watch Trek/be a fan?" dismissals. That said, I consider this resolved now and I understand why other posters got defensive. The intention here was to stir the pot, not kick the wasps' nest.

 

[1001001]

In any case, it certainly doesn't make me dismissable as not a True Trek Fan

Sweet Sybok's Beard, is there any term more toxic or unnecessary as "True Trek Fan"?

People like what they like, and don't like what they don't. So what?

Other peoples' opinions on what shows or episodes they like shouldn't ever bother anyone else, let alone lead to judgment or "dismissal".

And I should know...VOY and DSC are two of my favorites!!

 

[Vger23]

1. I'd much prefer to rewatch Spock's Brain than City on the Edge of Forever.

2. Undicovered Country is better than Wrath of Khan.

3. I'd much prefer to watch Move Along Home than The Visitor.

4. Enterprise S1&2 are better than 3&4.

5. Beyond is the best of the Kelvin films.

6. Disco S1 is the best, and Disco has gotten progressively less interesting each series.

7. Picard S1 is the best of the new trek series so far.

Controversial Counter-Opinion:

I find TUC to be as sloppy as TFF, but not nearly as fun or creatively interesting. It may be my least-liked film of the TOS movies. Plot holes galore, contrivances, things that make absolutely no sense, “winky-winky at the audience” moments, tonal discontinuity. I like it, but it’s not a well put together film.

I totally agree on points 6 and 7.

On point 4, I think BEY is objectively the best film, but I personally find it to be the least entertaining. It’s almost as unmemorable as INS.

 

[Vger23]

Sweet Sybok's Beard, is there any term more toxic or unnecessary as "True Trek Fan"?

People like what they like, and don't like what they don't. So what?

Other peoples' opinions on what shows or episodes they like shouldn't ever bother anyone else, let alone lead to judgment or "dismissal".

And I should know...VOY and DSC are two of my favorites!!

. The whole “you’re not a True Fan” thing is the laziest, most unimaginative way of trying to discredit someone’s opinion that exists in fandom.

 

[cooleddie74]

Agreed, it’s possibly the worst of TOS’s entire run. I have a theory that Picard hated children and didn’t want any on his ship because he’d happened to see “And the Children Shall Lead”. Those kids were just unbearable.

I mean, they couldn't even make a casting gimmick like Jack Ruby's defense lawyer work for them. The other series usually milked a stunt casting appearance for everything it was worth.