What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In other words, let's make sure the Federation never pay the consequences of t heir actions.

Who says there has to even BE any consequences?

Like I said, the Romulans really have no cause to complain here. Everything Sisko did, was totally within their wheelhouse as well. If the shoe was on the other foot, you know damn well they would have done ALL of that shit, and probably stooped to levels even Sisko would never have dreamed of. The simple fact is, Sisko's actions were very Romulan.

And obviously the Romulans would have found out sooner or later that the Dominion would have come for them as well. Even though the actual invasion plans detailed in the episode were fake...everybody knows the Dominion would have gotten around to it sooner or later, since the Dominion are obviously untrustworthy and would turn on their so-called "allies" whenever it suited them (and also would never respect any "nonaggression" pact). So in the end, it all worked out for the best. The greater good was served.

Also I think it's rather telling that not even Section 31 managed to think of a plan like that. Sisko was effective in a way that they never were.

 

[Ragitsu]

If by "effective" you mean "roped into keeping Garak's murder a secret", then sure...

 

[Oddish]

Sisko was effective in a way that they never were.

Which made it weirder. Sisko was a shipbuilder, a station administrator, and a part time religious icon. Section 31 were elite professional spooks.

 

[Farscape One]

But Sisko was also one of the few Starfleet captains who was not above getting his hands dirty to serve a greater good. In that respect, he is very much Kirk.

And Sisko did try to convince Vreenak that Dominion was going to after the Romulans at some point.

Whether Garak's entire plan was to blow up his ship from the jump or it was a backup in case the rod was discovered to be a fake, we may never know.



Regarding the plan being a construct of Section 31, I actually don't think they would have been able to do it simply because of Sisko. I say this because it seemed clear that Vreenak would be open to talk an extremely few amount of Starfleet officers. Given his breakdown of Sisko at the airlock, I think he was one of those elite few Vreenak would bother to give the time of day. Basically, the entire plan hinged on whether or not Vreenak would come to the station, and Garak knew enough about the man to realize Sisko was the draw. I don't think Section 31 has anyone on their staff or in their pocket that would have been as effective a draw.

 

[Mytran]

And concentration camps are very much a Nazi thing. Only humans had Nazis.

While definitely a human thing, many countries have employed concentration camps. And the Nazis weren't even the first to use them!
Concentration camps (in their modern sense) were first employed by the British during the Second Boer War (1899-1902). In fact it is highly likely that Hitler took his inspiration from them - there were many elements of the British Empire which he admired.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War_concentration_camps
https://www2.lib.uct.ac.za/mss/bccd/

 

[Grendelsbayne]

But Sisko was also one of the few Starfleet captains who was not above getting his hands dirty to serve a greater good. In that respect, he is very much Kirk.

And Sisko did try to convince Vreenak that Dominion was going to after the Romulans at some point.

Whether Garak's entire plan was to blow up his ship from the jump or it was a backup in case the rod was discovered to be a fake, we may never know.



Regarding the plan being a construct of Section 31, I actually don't think they would have been able to do it simply because of Sisko. I say this because it seemed clear that Vreenak would be open to talk an extremely few amount of Starfleet officers. Given his breakdown of Sisko at the airlock, I think he was one of those elite few Vreenak would bother to give the time of day. Basically, the entire plan hinged on whether or not Vreenak would come to the station, and Garak knew enough about the man to realize Sisko was the draw. I don't think Section 31 has anyone on their staff or in their pocket that would have been as effective a draw.

It wasn't a backup. The bomb clearly had to have been planted while Vreenak was with Sisko, ergo, before anyone knew the fake had been discovered. You could theorize maybe he would only blow it up if the fake were discovered, but if the unexploded bomb were found after Vreenak went home it could've made the Romulans ally with the Dominion instead, so that would've been a terrible plan. Plus Garak made it pretty clear he didn't really expect the fake to pass muster.

 

[Oddish]

Many cultures used concentration camps, it's true. Usually, however, their purpose was detainment of enemy personnel. And, I expect others will in the future; they're a cruel reality of war. Hitler used them to kill and cremate 11 million of his own citizens. Let's hope THAT, at least, is a one and done.

 

[cooleddie74]

Great Britain - a democratic society and postwar industrialized power - ran concentration camps in Kenya while it was still a British colony in the 1950s to incarcerate Mau Mau rebels and others deemed in league with or sympathetic to them. Even democracies use concentration camps if it's in their selfish interests.

 

[Orphalesion]

Many cultures used concentration camps, it's true. Usually, however, their purpose was detainment of enemy personnel. And, I expect others will in the future; they're a cruel reality of war. Hitler used them to kill and cremate 11 million of his own citizens. Let's hope THAT, at least, is a one and done.

I mean personally I always thought that, for example the Khmer Rouge were pretty similar to what Nazi Germany did, even if it "only" killed 2 million of their own citizens. Or the prison camps in North Korea, that, from what I've read only differ in that they don't have gas chambers.
Really genocide, including of a country's own citizens happened during many parts of history, and is still happening today.

Of course the "Concentration Camps" of Nazi Germany are more correctly called "Death Camps" or "Extermination Camps" since once the 'final solution' was agreed on by the Nazis they were not meant to contain people, they were meant to murder people as efficiently as possible.
I think that is one big factor that makes the Nazis stand out as so monstrous. They ended up not even trying to pretend anymore that their facilities were work or prison camps. They created an industrialized way to kill people they didn't like (one that was extremely agonizing for the victims to boot)
The other reason is probably that both the murderers and the victims were white Europeans living in a place that had been considered "civilized".

To bring that back to the Ferengi. I can totally see them doing, for example, discovering a valuable resource on a plane with a primitive civilization and taking over and working the local population to death mining that resource. I could even see them doing that to a portion of their own population back when they still had nation states. Or exterminating/enslaving a species that interfered with their profit.
As for interstellar wars, considering how long the Ferengi have been in space and how much contact they had with other species (including forming something called the "Ferengi Alliance") I still think it is most likely/realistic that they had interstellar wars. At the very least they would have had proxy wars in situations where they can see a profit for them.

That whole scene remains complete hack writing.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There's no way the Ferengi couldn't have had war of some kind. If it breathes, it bleeds. The Ferengi are no different.

I mean, they have those badass military vessels for SOME reason, don't they?

And everyone knows Ferengi women are (or were, pre-Rom and Ishka) slaves. So if Quark says otherwise, he's full of shit. End of discussion.

 

[Deidesheim]

Star Trek under Alex Kurtzman is a different timeline, the Alex Kurtzman timeline.

 

[cooleddie74]

Well. No.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Star Trek under Alex Kurtzman is a different timeline, the Alex Kurtzman timeline.

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[Farscape One]

I don't know if this is a controversial opinion, but STAR TREK: PICARD would never have happened if NEMESIS wasn't filmed.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Star Trek under Alex Kurtzman is a different timeline, the Alex Kurtzman timeline.

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[fireproof78]

Well, it is the controversial opinion thread.

 

[Oddish]

don't know if this is a controversial opinion, but STAR TREK: PICARD would never have happened if NEMESIS wasn't filmed.

Well, Nemesis was a turkey, and Picard was fourth of my list of Nu Treks only because I actually managed to grind through most of it... I would have done fine without.

 

[Farscape One]

Calling NEMESIS a 'turkey' is an insult to turkeys everywhere. At least they are delicious, and good with gravy.

 

[Oddish]

Fine. It's a slug slimed sack of rat guts and cat vomit, a scab picked pimple squeezing finger bandage, and a week-old maggotburger with everything on it and flies on the side. Better?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As bad as NEM may or may not have been...don't even try to tell me that Patrick Stewart wasn't enjoying the hell out of driving the Argo.